Ozone Pro - iZotope go subscription

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRist
366 posts since 27 Aug, 2020

Post Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:17 am

nightjar wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:49 pm
here is a fresh thought on subscription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTuqORiSLE
Cool, still not subscribing, sorry. :wink:
Last edited by crickey13 on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
5132 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:24 am

nightjar wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:49 pm
here is a fresh thought on subscription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTuqORiSLE
What is the fresh thought?
Don't have the time to watch 52min about that...

KVRAF
4125 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:29 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:24 am
nightjar wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:49 pm
here is a fresh thought on subscription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTuqORiSLE
What is the fresh thought?
Don't have the time to watch 52min about that...
nothing fresh, just CTO trying to justifying being a dick.
"but if you subscribe we need to work to keep your subscription - if you buy we don't care we already have money from you" or some dumbass shit like that
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KVRAF
4293 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:26 am

otherwise known as "if you subscribe, you're already locked in, you use our stuff in your projects, so if you stop paying you lose access to your work, which effectively forces you to keep paying".
From Russia with love
Our online jams (if you speak Russian - you're welcome to join!)

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:43 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:29 am
nothing fresh, just CTO trying to justifying being a dick.
"but if you subscribe we need to work to keep your subscription - if you buy we don't care we already have money from you" or some dumbass shit like that
Man I love that shit. I understand you want to switch to a service model because it makes more money but don't explain to people its added value to them. The currenty sub model especially is a giant value loss :clap:.

edit: Good sub value: Kiloheartz 10$ is just a good price plus you get a 120$ voucher after a year. This allows entry into something you maybe couldn't buy into. Okay/good sub value: PA 20$. It gives you access to a broad range of tools which you definitely couldnt buy into and you can check out which ones you like best. You also geta 200$ voucher. Izotope 20$ tier: joke level. You pay 20 a month for a core product line thats worth ~200$ (sale price) with an ~80% resell value. If you wanna get more expensive FINE. Please don't expect people to be idiots tho. This actually makes me a bit angry.

edit2: The base sub basically raises the cost for izotope products in the first year by ~400%. Now if you upgrade every year, it will be a loss of just about 50%-100% every year after that!!
Last edited by gExpectations on Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

KVRist
343 posts since 26 Dec, 2016 from Portugal

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:46 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:24 am
nightjar wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:49 pm
here is a fresh thought on subscription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTuqORiSLE
What is the fresh thought?
Don't have the time to watch 52min about that...
It´s more a sad thought that a fresh one. It´s basically him, nervous as hell, doing a planned press work in a platform like Pensado´s to justify the subscription and how awesome it is.
It´s him virtue signaling inclusiveness, which i´m all up for, just not as a business/marketing tactic like most companies use inclusiveness for these days(to get in your pocket). He mentions the subscription is awesome because he thought about costumers who might not have the budget to buy the plugins and with the subscription they can but that still makes no sense because if they really wanted that they could just create a rent to own model and help those low budget costumers instead of having them tied to a subscription to use their plugins and get huge money in the long run.

Don´t get me wrong, there are some cases where the subscription might be a valuable service for someone, like for example if you tipically buy the upgrade as soon as a new version comes out it might be a good deal since you would pay for those updates right away anyway, but for the most part its pretty bad and they are definitely trying to go an adobe path with this i bet. I hope people can see this and what it really means in the long run.

If they keep having the option to buy their plugins it makes it fair for everyone, as long as they get updated and bug fixed,etc The question then becomes will they slowly start making updates for those plugins when they are already implementing the "subscribers get updates for free" tactic, even with small updates? I hope not but i´m not positive about it, judging by the update for ozone and Nectar they released a few days ago. Either they will start having plugins from people who already bought them become outdated, in order for them to subscribe or they will hold on those updates for the yearly update where you have to pay for the upgrade(which is fine since this is how it has been). For sure it seems even the advanced versions will start getting improvements "cut off" from them to favour the pro subscription versions and that´s sad. As long as its not forced and i don´t get my plugins outdated or stop working because i´m not a subscriber i don´t mind it.

But at the end of the day it will always come up to us to vote with the wallet. On my part, i love iZotope products and their license transfer policy is the most fair for both costumer and company but i´m not paying for a subscription. What worries me is that many people out there won´t have the same discipline about it. Not to criticize anyone who does /will do of course, as we all have our own situations and no one can tell us what to do with our money. I just can´t support such a business tactic, specially when you do that to people who supported you by paying thousands and thousands for the advanced versions who were supposed to be the "complete" package.
Last edited by Igor Sena on Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:01 am

I'm seeing a trend where companys make reselling their licenses harder and harder. Which is fine, I'm sure second hand online sales have been much more of a factor over the last years. What I expect to happen tho, is sales looking at data and explaining how much they lose every year due to their license model. I'm quite confident in this prediction: What will result out of this is not people spending more money but people owning less licenses. I also expect there to be less mid tier plugin companies in ~3-5yrs (at least in relation to now, controlling for market growth). If everyone switches to subs, there might be a few key players taking most of the market (like everywhere else). NI is the one company that from an economics standpoint really should switch to subs. I expect they'll do it sooner rather than later.

KVRian
561 posts since 29 Jan, 2017

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:16 am

Igor Sena wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:46 am
If they keep having the option to buy their plugins it makes it fair for everyone, as long as they get updated and bug fixed,etc The question then becomes will they slowly start making updates for those plugins when they are already implementing the "subscribers get updates for free" tactic, even with small updates?
Given Adobe's case I'd wager they will eventually go that route. I think for some time there will be "dual" way to handle products (normal sales + subscription) but in the long term they will make regular sales less convinient and potentially more expensive to push people to subs. And since they "joined forces" with NI I'm very pessimistic when it comes to Komplete's future
Igor Sena wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:46 am
I just can´t support such a business tactic, specially when you do that to people who supported you by paying thousands and thousands for the advanced versions who were supposed to be the "complete" package.
Agreed, but I guess from their perspective it's a natural continuation to sustain profits. Existing customers who paid tons of money won't pay again so it's time to find something new.
I understand subs can be useful in some situations but for me it's just money flushed in the toilet :dog:

KVRist
163 posts since 8 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:18 am

In regards to Igors post above: I really do think the value in subs for customers lies in the scenario, where you get a lot more options than you would have gotten without the sub (Netflix, Spotify, Xbox Game Pass as nondomestic examples -- Plugin Alliance, Slate as domestic ones) or where you have a risk free version of trying something expensive (Kiloheartz, could be Izotope). The problem with this is: Izotope really only has 4 flaghsip products. You don't buy into an ecosystem, what you do is, you pay for Ozone (and maybe RX) monthly instead of yearly (every N years). (Yes people use their verbs and like Trash but you can get those for very cheap). And if they use this as a switch from single license to sub instead of a easier entry (Kiloheartz) they just created a giant load of negative value for existing customers.

User avatar
KVRist
366 posts since 27 Aug, 2020

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:26 am

The problem with audio software companies going subscription is that this area still constitutes a fairly small niche in the grand scheme of things. Applying these grandiose subscription models in a market as small as this can backfire big time. These might be sophisticated tools, but they're very specialized tools, not a platform or a gaming console, it's all very monothematic. On top of that, products like Ozone are easily replacable by other alternatives unless you rely on very specific features found in Izotope like Master Assistant or stuff like that. Even RX can be replaced with the Acon Digital stuff, none of it is THAT irreplacable.

People won't magically be able to spend more, the amount of cash spent on audio software will probably remain more or less the same, they will just switch to products they can afford or they will resort to pirating stuff. I really don't like the phenomenon of pirating software because it hurts developers, but honestly, in view of what Izotope is doing right now, can you really blame people? If that's what Izotope is willing to put people through, do you really expect me to sympathize with these bag of dicks? It's not only a matter of functionality, it's also a matter of maintaining good optics and a degree of trust. What they're doing is going to put scores of people off, you can even see people complain in the comment section of that vid.

I've already replaced Ozone with Voxengo plugins in all of my projects, I am perfectly happy with the transition and now I am fully ready to uninstall Izotope. I don't need them anymore. My only regret is that I've spent a single dime on a product made by the greedy dirtbags, I could've donated to a bunch of smaller devs or ordered a pizza or whatever. I doubt I will ever buy another Izotope plugin. Honestly, I feel sorry for loyal Izotope customers, what a seedy way to treat people who support you.

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KVRist
286 posts since 17 Sep, 2020

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:11 am

If they go the 'sub only' route I'll just use their products until they fall apart, then go for smaller companies who offer the same or similar stuff.

But I won't give them any more money, if it's just a sub. I've nothing against the sub per se as long as you always have the option to buy as well.

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KVRAF
2294 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 am

They are releasing subscription only updates. Not a fan

KVRist
343 posts since 26 Dec, 2016 from Portugal

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:26 am

billcarroll wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 am
They are releasing subscription only updates. Not a fan
Exactly what I was saying. Although tipically some of those were only released every year/few years with new versions of the product and you would have to pay , now they are doing that to have people subscribe when it would be so easy to do the same to their advanced versions. Sad to see small updates like these handled that way.

User avatar
KVRAF
2294 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:33 am

Igor Sena wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:26 am
billcarroll wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 am
They are releasing subscription only updates. Not a fan
Exactly what I was saying. Although tipically some of those were only released every year/few years with new versions of the product and you would have to pay , now they are doing that to have people subscribe when it would be so easy to do the same to their advanced versions. Sad to see small updates like these handled that way.
Truth in advertising.

"Come for the subscription only updates, stay for the catalog of abandonware." - iZotope

KVRist
343 posts since 26 Dec, 2016 from Portugal

Post Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:36 am

gExpectations wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:18 am
In regards to Igors post above: I really do think the value in subs for customers lies in the scenario, where you get a lot more options than you would have gotten without the sub (Netflix, Spotify, Xbox Game Pass as nondomestic examples -- Plugin Alliance, Slate as domestic ones) or where you have a risk free version of trying something expensive (Kiloheartz, could be Izotope). The problem with this is: Izotope really only has 4 flaghsip products. You don't buy into an ecosystem, what you do is, you pay for Ozone (and maybe RX) monthly instead of yearly (every N years). (Yes people use their verbs and like Trash but you can get those for very cheap). And if they use this as a switch from single license to sub instead of a easier entry (Kiloheartz) they just created a giant load of negative value for existing customers.
Well said.

There are definitely some cases where the sub is a good thing for costumers but the bad heavily outweighs the good, specially because of what it means for the future, if enough people fall into that.

My biggest problem isn't even the subscription itself or the fact that a company is trying to make more money. I like to support companies who give me value for the money and everyone loves money; who doesn't want a bit more,right? It's the seemingly disingenuous way they are going about it. it's the fact that previous purchases will slowly (or quickly) get pushed to the side by updates until support for them is discontinued (obviously it hasnt happened and i don't know their full plan but it sure seems like it) to force people to subscribe.

Now, as some people already mentioned, if they keep both options and if they update the bought plugins from people who spent thousands i don't mind the subscription because all costumers are treated equally and there are more options for everyone. It's perfectly fine that way. But it doesn't seems what's going to happen and the fact that they haven't been transparent in saying "we will never stop supporting the previous bought plugins" worries me.

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