Presonus Studio One 5.2 vs Cubase 11

[antic604]

When you press the "show lanes" button, it turns the track into a folder track and adds a sub-track for each of the stacked clips and puts them there. When you hide the lanes, it removes the sub-tracks and re-stacks clips.

Do you actually mean a "folder", or does it look like this?

[jens]

That is of course what I meant, yes. The "Lanes "are basically nothing more than glorified sub-tracks.

And again: as I already mentioned, Audio Parts would be a much better solution, but you can't record into them.

[antic604]

That is of course what I meant, yes. The "Lanes "are basically nothing more than glorified sub-tracks.

And again: as I already mentioned, Audio Parts would be a much better solution, but you can't record into them.

Ok, fine. So what is confusing for you in this workflow? It basically works like in any other DAW, incl. Studio One:

[jens]

Nothing is confusing for me - I never said I was confused.

Also, once again (and again and again): the video you linked to here deals with comping, which I was not talking about at all in the first place.

Please try to really understand what I am talking about! Pretty please!

[antic604]

Please try to really understand what I am talking about! Pretty please!

I am trying, but since you and @dellboy have been discussing this for several days now, I'll back off.

[jens]

Okay, one last try:

imagine, just as a simple example (and I could name many others), that you have recorded a vocal part that goes over eight bars, but there is a (say) one bar rest somewhere in between.
You recorded a couple of takes. Perhaps there is some background noise during this silence (of the vocals). Normally, you could just split the clip, and slip-edit to remove the silence. But not so in Cubase - you first need to make sure that all stacked regions are selected, otherwise the one on top which you just shortened disappears and instead of silence, another one will play not only during that period of silence but for the whole of its remainder instead. Undo aside, it will be even a bit of a hassle to get the region you just shortened back on top. Since it now is the shortest one, it will disappear underneath all the others.

And again: I am never said it's impossible to work your way around this. I say that it is more cumbersome and convoluted than neccessary. The point is basically, that the stacking of regions does not yield any advantage I can think of, yet it has a tendency to get in the way exactly when you probably don't even expect it and certainly don't want or need it. It's simply a lousy implementation of multi-takes.

I speak from experience here. And I will go as far as claiming that whoever does not see the problem here most probably either does not record a lot of audio or in general is not very productive when it comes to producing full songs. There, I said it.

[antic604]

...whoever does not see the problem here most probably either does not record a lot of audio or in general is not very productive when it comes to producing full songs. There, I said it.

While this is definitely true in my case, I can't be bothered now to go find my eLicenser, record some takes and try editing them. However, both the video and screenshot I posted seem to indicate that you can edit individual takes however you want, in particular cut, resize and slip-edit them. And then select the bits that go on top.

From your description it seems you're trying to work with this without opening the lanes, but instead attempting to bring certain elements to the front or send them to the back from the main comp lane? In that case I'm not surprised you find it inefficient.

Maybe instead of back & forth posts, record a short video?

Also, how does S1 does it better (considering the thread we're in)?

[jens]

From your description it seems you're trying to work with this without opening the lanes, but instead attempting to bring certain elements to the front or send them to the back from the main comp lane?

No, exactly that not! I gave an example where I simply want to shorten a clip, without messing with takes at all. I don't want to have to deal with the different takes, I don't even want to see them.
All I want is to simply shorten a clip - right there on the timeline, with perhaps first a quick cut and then one simple drag of the mouse - you see?

I can't make a video for a similar reason as you not being able to run Cubase.

While my eLicenser is right in front of me right now, Cubase is not even installed on my current main machine. I'm in my studio right now, while the laptop Cubase is installed on is two stories down in our flat. And I can't be arsed to go to this length just in order to prove something on the internet. It doesn't really matter anyway - if you don't get what I mean - as obvious as the problem is to me - it obviously doesn't concearn you - for whatever reason.

[jens]

Also, how does S1 does it better (considering the thread we're in)?

It simply works as one would expect - it's the same as Reason, Reaper, Logic and whatever else in that regard - there's no messy stacked-clips madness.

[antic604]

I simply want to shorten a clip, without messing with takes at all. I don't want to have to deal with the different takes, I don't even want to see them. All I want is to simply shorten a clip - right there on the timeline, with perhaps first a quick cut and then one simple drag of the mouse - you see?

Right click -> Create tracks from lanes

This effectively bounces the comp lane to new clip and removes the takes. Now you can edit it like any other clip, without other layers going up and interfering.

I can't make a video for a similar reason as you not being able to run Cubase.

While my eLicenser is right in front of me right now, Cubase is not even installed on my current main machine. I'm in my studio right now, while the laptop Cubase is installed on is two stories down in our flat. And I can't be arsed to go to this length just in order to prove something on the internet. It doesn't really matter anyway - if you don't get what I mean - as obvious as the problem is to me - it obviously doesn't concearn you - for whatever reason.

I only meant I can't do it right now because I'm at work, even though working from home today

[jens]

Right click -> Create tracks from lanes

This effectively bounces the comp lane to new clip and removes the takes. Now you can edit it like any other clip, without other layers going up and interfering.

I guess I will end up having nightmares from this thread....


As I said before, I want to keep the takes. That I would commit to getting rid of them for quick and rough slip-edit is absolutely out of the question. Plus it would cause additonal work, i.e. it would be far ouside being a simple cut, click &drag affair. That in my opinion is really a bizarre suggestion. It's simply absurd that I should have to do that.

Cubase is bad in this regard, but not as bad as this - as I mentioned before, selecting all stacked/takes regions will work - which is still any number of light-years better than your suggestion - even though it's easily more than cumbersome enough already - which was my point.

[antic604]

I guess I will end up having nightmares from this thread...

Yes, me too.

[jens]

But that you suggest something as cumbersome and convoluted and far-teched as this basically proves my point better than I could do it myself.

Again: in most every host you simply click and drag. In other DAWs there are no stacked clips. Why are there not? Because it would be a stupid thing to implement. Also I have never seen the Steinis touting it as a feature themselves, which they certainly would if there was even the slightest merrit to (automatically) having stacked regions from multi-takes. They simply failed to implement something better.

[jens]

I guess I will end up having nightmares from this thread...

Yes, me too.

It's so weird - I point out something is crap (which it is) and it just seems impossible for anyone of you guys in this thread to simply admit that.

I also don't buy that it's really so hard to get what I mean. It isn't.

[antic604]

Again: in most every host you simply click and drag. In other DAWs there are no stacked clips. Why are there not? Because it would be a stupid thing to implement. Also I have never seen the Steinis touting it as a feature themselves, which they certainly would if there was even the slightest merrit to (automatically) having stacked regions from multi-takes. They simply failed to implement something better.

I guess Cubase's idea was that the clip at the top is not really a clip, but a "window" from the top through take lanes, so - indeed - if you cut something out you suddenly see a take undereath.

Whereas in other DAWs it's a separate, dynamically updated meta-clip comp(osed) from takes below.

I don't think it's crap, it's just different design.