How do you feel about subscription based plugins?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRist
497 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:34 am

I have given this some thoughts. By default, everyone has mainly responded negatively to subscription based software, at KVR, Gearslu..eh..space and Reasontalk. Yet, it seems like cloud services are up running with subscribers. I cannot possibly imagine myself going that route and would prefer to just stay with the most recent version of all my software if most DEVs converted future upgrades to subscription models. If this messed with future upgrades of Mac OS, I would skip new Mac OS versions too. I think I have more than enough working software to be independent on the future.

How about you, how far would you go to avoid this thing? It could be the new normal before we even notice.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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KVRist
366 posts since 27 Aug, 2020

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:04 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:34 am
How about you, how far would you go to avoid this thing? It could be the new normal before we even notice.
At that point, I'd stick with my hardware rack, Airwindows and stock plugins. There is no goddamn way I'm spending a dime on a subscription service, ever. I don't give a toss about what 'the new normal' is or whatever newspeak term the corporate overlords come up to justify the corporate neofeudalism. The only thing where subscription kind of makes sense is a DAW environment. It still sucks, but that's the only scenario that would kind of make sense in my book.

Piracy is going to come back in style I see. And honestly, I couldn't care less if it hurts the feefees of the companies that coerce their customers into subbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjKZzKL ... el=DrYo666

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KVRAF
2134 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:15 am

It's vampiric, like rent-to-own stores. They find a way to make more money by tricking people into spending more money for their products. Subscription models are never about the consumer getting a deal.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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KVRist
366 posts since 27 Aug, 2020

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:23 am

Dirtgrain wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:15 am
It's vampiric, like rent-to-own stores.
It's arguably worse because in the end, you don't really get to own anything.

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KVRist
497 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:28 am

Hey, that reminds me. I think I read somewhere that Protools is subscription now, taking users as hostages if they want upgrades? (I have been away from software 5 years so forgive me if I am lacking behind the news). If that is true, it is worrisome because Reason has introduced + as well. If RS is heading towards the same stunt...Ragnarok...just Ragnarok :-o :shock: :tantrum: :bang: :nutter:
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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KVRAF
6833 posts since 30 Apr, 2019

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:35 am

I’m not as hung up on this as others obviously are maybe because making music always used to have a load of costs that are service based and didn’t lead to ownership like hiring a studio or rehearsal space or renting some expensive equipment for a show or two. I get the argument that people feel they are paying more over time, but it hasn’t seemed like that for me yet and if I did feel I was being taken advantage of then I’d also vote with my feet.

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KVRist
497 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:45 am

Yeah ^ this must make sense to some, and the explanation above does fit. I am just a little worried that a DAW like Pro Tools can be turned into a subscription model and apparently work instead of creating revolt and evacuation. It has been going on for some time, right?
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRian
634 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:47 am

It's not sustainable. Who wants to pay for potentially hundreds of subscriptions monthly? Nobody. I'd go all free before I go subscriptions.

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KVRist
497 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:55 am

Good point. I just tried to imagine my arsenal subscription based. Ouch. Only happy side effect will be the permanent cure of GAS.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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KVRist
47 posts since 17 Feb, 2018

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:45 am

I think it's fine.

I am mixing a project at the moment that I wanted to use SSL buss and strip on, so I am paying a subscription. When I've finished, I'll cancel it. When I need SSL stuff again, I'll pay again.

I don't feel the need to have a bazillion plugins installed permanently when I know that I won't use them week after week.

I don't understand why people are so whiney about this stuff.

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addled muppet weed
80670 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:21 am

ZargonTheMagnificent wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:45 am


I don't understand why people are so whiney about this stuff.
you new here?
whining is what we do!

constructively whining that is :hihi:

i like a sub
being a dom without wouldn't be much fun :shrug:

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KVRist
497 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:40 am

Nope, this is not whining, it is the dawn of Rentism, the replacement of capitalism.

http://sonicacts.com/critical/news/alte ... es-rentism
Imagine a world where intellectual property is the most valuable form of currency, a place where software, blueprints and algorithms flood the black market. Copyright infringers are the new outlaws and underemployment is the status quo. (…..) Rentism (….)”… is based on the extraction of rents rather than the accumulation of capital through commodity production”. Physical property laws imply a straightforward exchange of one thing for something else. When it comes to intellectual property however, it is the rights-holders who dictate how others may use it. When intellectual property rules, it is those who control the information, copyright and patents who control the economy; they become the ruling class (….) the lower class becomes the “rentier class” i.e. those who pay more in licensing fees than profits earned.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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addled muppet weed
80670 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:44 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:40 am
Nope, this is not whining, it is the dawn of Rentism, the replacement of capitalism.

http://sonicacts.com/critical/news/alte ... es-rentism
Imagine a world where intellectual property is the most valuable form of currency, a place where software, blueprints and algorithms flood the black market. Copyright infringers are the new outlaws and underemployment is the status quo. (…..) Rentism (….)”… is based on the extraction of rents rather than the accumulation of capital through commodity production”. Physical property laws imply a straightforward exchange of one thing for something else. When it comes to intellectual property however, it is the rights-holders who dictate how others may use it. When intellectual property rules, it is those who control the information, copyright and patents who control the economy; they become the ruling class (….) the lower class becomes the “rentier class” i.e. those who pay more in licensing fees than profits earned.
rantism :lol:

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addled muppet weed
80670 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:47 am

just dont buy in to it
that's all you can do
anything else is pissing in the wind.

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KVRAF
11059 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:26 am

functionform wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:47 am
It's not sustainable. Who wants to pay for potentially hundreds of subscriptions monthly? Nobody. I'd go all free before I go subscriptions.
Right. We ditched cable TV because we realized we were paying tons of money for something we watched for an hour a day. Then we even went too crazy with individual subscriptions, and I just pared it down to a few, and we could probably bring it down to one, but my daughter likes too many shows on Disney + and I like shows on Netflix and Hulu, so they stay.

The main reasons I stopped Roland Cloud was because it constantly seemed to have issues, but even so, I realized that I like to have a wide variety of options. That means I don’t spend all that much time with specific plugins or even specific developers. Months could go by where I didn’t touch a single Roland Cloud plugin, but my $20 went out just the same. Since they know when and if I’m using them, why not charge me by the minute for the actual time I used their plugins? Because that would benefit me, and not them. It would mean I pay for actual use, not potential use.

That pare down was instigated because we just sunk a shit load of cash into a house. Money will be tight, and anything not delivering on a pretty regular basis has no chance. I won’t even upgrade Bigwig until they deliver on something that I feel is missing. I don’t care how much I use your plugins. I’m still on Adobe CS6 for the same reasons, unless a client wants to pay for a month of Adobe Cloud when I’m on a project. I think the moment all software developers go subscription, more people will ditch software and turn back to hardware setups. I’ve got enough hardware to never touch a plugin again, so it really makes no difference to me.
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