Why you left Ableton?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Banned
1 posts since 15 May, 2021

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:36 am

Just bought Pro Tools, for me Pro Tools makes me comfort with their GUI

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KVRAF
9319 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:48 am

zoematthew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:36 am
Just bought Pro Tools, for me Pro Tools makes me comfort with their GUI
That was indeed very divisive & controversial :o
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
5421 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:48 am
zoematthew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:36 am
Just bought Pro Tools, for me Pro Tools makes me comfort with their GUI
That was indeed very divisive & controversial :o
So the guy was even banned for that.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... travels-ep

KVRAF
7656 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:55 am

recursive one wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
antic604 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:48 am
zoematthew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:36 am
Just bought Pro Tools, for me Pro Tools makes me comfort with their GUI
That was indeed very divisive & controversial :o
So the guy was even banned for that.
Harsh but fair :wink:
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF
9319 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:59 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:55 am
recursive one wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
antic604 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:48 am
zoematthew wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:36 am
Just bought Pro Tools, for me Pro Tools makes me comfort with their GUI
That was indeed very divisive & controversial :o
So the guy was even banned for that.
Harsh but fair :wink:
Yes, I love the mods here. I want to be like them when I grow up.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
3477 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:06 am

apoclypse wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:43 am
I'm not a heavy Grid user but this says it all for me.

But this is all I need to know (Poli a relatively simple synth):
Image

vs

This (Polymer an equally simple synth):
Image

I like M4l in theory but in practice, no thanks. Even compared to similar synth to Poli in Reaktor (Junatik) Reaktor doesn't need anywhere the level of complexity as Max does to do pretty much the same thing.

Image
It will be even better when and if BW will allow to create custom panels for the grid creations similar to MuLab or M4L.
I wonder if it’s more “when” than “if”....
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRAF
7656 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:15 am

apoclypse wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:43 am

I like M4l in theory but in practice, no thanks. Even compared to similar synth to Poli in Reaktor (Junatik) Reaktor doesn't need anywhere the level of complexity as Max does to do pretty much the same thing.
I absolutely agree, and if you want to build synths Reaktor is a great tool and has the benefit of cross platform and having a great user base (not MPE yet, that but that wont bother most people). If my main interest was building synths and fx I would personally probably stick with Reaktor as I use more than one DAW.

M4L however lets you access everything in Live like launching clips or modulating warp markers, M4L (unlike the grid currently) can also build just about any midi effect or sequencer and extract midi and MPE data from a controller or the sequencer for manipulation. It can alos build quite advanced GUI's so it will necessarily be a bit more complicated.

Perhaps of less interest to most is that it can also lets you manipulate video (in detail) and external hardware like sensors to build controls or control light shows. The grid is currently like a small selection of MAX prebuilt in to easy to use modules (more like BEAP) which is probably all most people need and the ease of use will outweigh the current limitations for most. If you want to build in big blocks, here is the MAX BEAP example for comparison of a simple mono synth (this of course can also run outside of a DAW in MAX)- to make it polyphonic however would require a few more boxes in MAX (no BEAP) but its relatively easy....as there are videos for how to do it on YT :tu:

Image

MAX is more complicated to use that the Grid (which incidentally I think is incredibly well done...) but then MAX can do far more and you can 'open' and edit tor make your own modules like those in the grid, you can also load code in to MAX so things like VCV Modules and Open Source hardware (like all the Mutable Instruments Euroracck Modules) are now free or cheap in native MAX4Live modules. Perhaps MAX needs another level, simpler than full visual programming but more flexible than BEAP...

Always pro's and con's...I enjoy them both for different reason but ultimately I have found the stuff that has been made in MAX far more interesting and useful than anything I have been able to make (or download) for the Grid 'so far'.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRian
1203 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:18 am

Can you guys start a separate M4L vs Grid already, instead of clogging up this thread, the Live 11 and Bitwig Beta 4 threads with this crap, it's getting kind of tedious now...
Always Read the Manual!

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KVRAF
9319 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:21 am

PieBerger wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:18 am
Can you guys start a separate M4L vs Grid already, instead of clogging up this thread, the Live 11 and Bitwig Beta 4 threads with this crap, it's getting kind of tedious now...
I agree. Especially since it's pretty obvious Grid is better :dog:


:ud:
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
7656 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:40 am

PieBerger wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:18 am
Can you guys start a separate M4L vs Grid already, instead of clogging up this thread, the Live 11 and Bitwig Beta 4 threads with this crap, it's getting kind of tedious now...
Yeh, because a 'Why you left Ableton?' thread is so normally so productive without this type of discussion.... :dog:
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
7656 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:44 am

PieBerger wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:18 am
Can you guys start a separate M4L vs Grid already, instead of clogging up this thread, the Live 11 and Bitwig Beta 4 threads with this crap, it's getting kind of tedious now...
Clogging up the 'Why you left Ableton?' thread with reasons why you left Ableton? :lol: :lol: :lol:

People leaving Ableton to go to Bitwig because the prefer the Grid (or hate Max) is completely 'on topic', so why don't you just stop visiting the thread if you have nothing to add?
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRian
1203 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:14 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:44 am
so why don't you just stop visiting the thread if you have nothing to add?
I guess I'll be doing that, no need to be in multiple threads where the exact same thing is being discussed :tu:
Always Read the Manual!

KVRAF
7656 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:13 am

PieBerger wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:14 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:44 am
so why don't you just stop visiting the thread if you have nothing to add?
I guess I'll be doing that, no need to be in multiple threads where the exact same thing is being discussed :tu:
I feel the same about any thread that mentions 'Apple Silicon Support' which is just about all of them at the moment! :borg:
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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KVRAF
2124 posts since 12 Jan, 2019

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:30 am

We need a "Why You Left the 'Why You Left ____'" thread.
"Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is a [jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?" - George Carlin

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KVRAF
5831 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:34 am

SLiC wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:15 am
not MPE yet, that but that wont bother most people.
Oh Reaktor can do MPE, I made a MPE mod of microPrism with some help from a NI programmer…
https://www.native-instruments.com/de/r ... how/12065/
And there is more, but its far away from the no brainer Bitwig way of doing it…

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