Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

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KVRAF
19870 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:01 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:35 pm
You don't need to read my posts at all and you can post anything you like that contradicts my view and I'm absolutely fine with it, you seems not to like views that are contrary to yours.
At this point you are spamming when you go on and on about M4L in the Bitwig 4 announcement thread. There is a Live 11 thread for that.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:19 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:01 pm
liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:35 pm
You don't need to read my posts at all and you can post anything you like that contradicts my view and I'm absolutely fine with it, you seems not to like views that are contrary to yours.
At this point you are spamming when you go on and on about M4L in the Bitwig 4 announcement thread. There is a Live 11 thread for that.
Don't you even try to accusing of spamming when the conversation get unconfortable for you.
In this thread there are views and opinions from users of both DAWs.

In the Live 11 topic there are about 174 post comparing Bitwig and some from you singing the modulation superiority of BW and more on M4L.

Fine with me, no spamming there that I can see. Just KVR usual posting in a non-Bitwig-Ableton-Forum.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRAF
19870 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:28 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:19 pm
Don't you even try to accusing of spamming when the conversation get unconfortable for you.
In this thread there are views and opinions from users of both DAWs.

In the Live 11 topic there are about 174 post comparing Bitwig and some from you singing the modulation superiority of BW and more on M4L.

Fine with me, no spamming there that I can see. Just KVR usual posting in a non-Bitwig-Ableton-Forum.
Yeah, I suppose I'm not comfortable as the conversation has become unpleasant. That is because your posts have become increasingly belligerent.

I don't want to read your posts anymore so I'm putting you on ignore and you can post whatever you want and wont have to see it.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:55 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:28 pm
liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:19 pm
Don't you even try to accusing of spamming when the conversation get unconfortable for you.
In this thread there are views and opinions from users of both DAWs.

In the Live 11 topic there are about 174 post comparing Bitwig and some from you singing the modulation superiority of BW and more on M4L.

Fine with me, no spamming there that I can see. Just KVR usual posting in a non-Bitwig-Ableton-Forum.
Yeah, I suppose I'm not comfortable as the conversation has become unpleasant. That is because your posts have become increasingly belligerent.

I don't want to read your posts anymore so I'm putting you on ignore and you can post whatever you want and wont have to see it.
Good but I will read your posts regardless. I don't mind any opposite opinions or views unless foul language is used in return (which I never do or I've never seen you using it either :tu: ).
Belligent? I do not think so.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRAF
3617 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:07 pm

^^^^^ So I'm not surprised at all by the discontent here. The one perfect thing about the "why You Left Bitwig", and the Live version is they're the perfect place for the inevitable comparative DAW 101 conversations. The fact that the Live 11 and Bitwig 4 threads are completely derailed by this conversation is flatly annoying.

I get it, there's always going to be this comparison, but I think it's a disservice to any sort of civil discourse to have 'that' conversation overwhelm threads not necessarily about comparing the two.


So yeah, take it to the Why You left Bitwig thread, please.

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KVRAF
19870 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:20 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:07 pm
So yeah, take it to the Why You left Bitwig thread, please.
Yes, please...

I found another Bitwig crash today. Saving some audio as a clip and then dragging that clip into a take lane and poof! Repeatable... Sent in a report.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:24 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:07 pm
^^^^^ So I'm not surprised at all by the discontent here. The one perfect thing about the "why You Left Bitwig", and the Live version is they're the perfect place for the inevitable comparative DAW 101 conversations. The fact that the Live 11 and Bitwig 4 threads are completely derailed by this conversation is flatly annoying.

I get it, there's always going to be this comparison, but I think it's a disservice to any sort of civil discourse to have 'that' conversation overwhelm threads not necessarily about comparing the two.


So yeah, take it to the Why You left Bitwig thread, please.
I didn't left Bitwig and there are things I like and don't about both DAWs that's why I try to avoid posting my dislike lately in the Bitwig forum unless it's really a good point.

Post the same complain, if you desire, in the Live threads.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRAF
3617 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:38 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:24 pm
I didn't left Bitwig and there are things I like and don't about both DAWs that's why I try to avoid posting my dislike lately in the Bitwig forum unless it's really a good point.
"Why You Left" threads are a good place to talk about those things, it's an open invitation to criticize the DAW. I haven't left Live either in all reality, but the "why you left Live" thread is where I would rather talk about grievances than in the Live 11 thread. It's pretty much inevitable that in a thread about the 4 beta someone will complain that the improvements aren't what they personally want, but it's just KVR being a place to argue about things that people chime in with their preference for Live in a Bitwig thread and visa versa.
Post the same complain, if you desire, in the Live threads.
Yeah, I noticed it first in the Live 11 thread that's why I mentioned it. I'm not the forum police, you have every much right to mention that the "why you left Live" thread is a much more appropriate place for comparative DAW 101.

I just think arguing for another DAW in a thread about a specific DAW is pretty much an invitation to an argument instead of a friendly discussion, that's all.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:03 pm

machinesworking wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:38 pm
liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:24 pm
I didn't left Bitwig and there are things I like and don't about both DAWs that's why I try to avoid posting my dislike lately in the Bitwig forum unless it's really a good point.
"Why You Left" threads are a good place to talk about those things, it's an open invitation to criticize the DAW. I haven't left Live either in all reality, but the "why you left Live" thread is where I would rather talk about grievances than in the Live 11 thread. It's pretty much inevitable that in a thread about the 4 beta someone will complain that the improvements aren't what they personally want, but it's just KVR being a place to argue about things that people chime in with their preference for Live in a Bitwig thread and visa versa.
Post the same complain, if you desire, in the Live threads.
Yeah, I noticed it first in the Live 11 thread that's why I mentioned it. I'm not the forum police, you have every much right to mention that the "why you left Live" thread is a much more appropriate place for comparative DAW 101.

I just think arguing for another DAW in a thread about a specific DAW is pretty much an invitation to an argument instead of a friendly discussion, that's all.
I understand fully your comment. I just don’t understand why it becomes so personal and even getting upset for comments that ultimately are not going to change absolutely nothing in ones’s life.

People post comments that are going right and left and where you draw the line? And who draws that line?

I have never got upset (IIRC) by anyone’s comment regardless of what product or forum is on.

You will never see me telling anyone to go somewhere else to post something I consider inappropriate. I don’t own this forum and I try to give my criticism and comparisons in general forums rather than the developer’s. Sometimes it’s appropriate but I try not to.

Anyway, if the post doesn’t target someone in particular with intensional mean attacks it’s inappropriate to make it personal.

If the developers feels differently I would honor their comments and move on.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

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KVRAF
3617 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:08 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:03 pm
I understand fully your comment. I just don’t understand why it becomes so personal and even getting upset for comments that ultimately are not going to change absolutely nothing in ones’s life.

People post comments that are going right and left and where you draw the line? And who draws that line?

I have never got upset (IIRC) by anyone’s comment regardless of what product or forum is on.

You will never see me telling anyone to go somewhere else to post something I consider inappropriate. I don’t own this forum and I try to give my criticism and comparisons in general forums rather than the developer’s. Sometimes it’s appropriate but I try not to.

Anyway, if the post doesn’t target someone in particular with intensional mean attacks it’s inappropriate to make it personal.

If the developers feels differently I would honor their comments and move on.
You're reading your own feelings into what I wrote. I've never wrote anything that insinuated that I take it personal.

It's annoying to read about someone's love of Live 11 in a thread about the upcoming Bitwig 4, that's all, annoying like a mosquito buzzing you, not annoying like an argument with a friend... and like you pointed out it's just as annoying that people post about how great Bitwig is in the Live 11 threads. Some comparison is to be expected, but the shear amount you see is closer to football hooligan rivalry nonsense.

I'm not a total egalitarian when it comes to your right to post whatever your thoughts are, in whatever thread you want to. I don't run this forum, but I will mention it if it's just getting dumb, and IMO constant arguments about whether Live is better or Bitwig on threads about updates to either software make for dull dull reading, and I'll mention it.

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:20 pm

Getting personal was not directed to you.

You can’t fix the world.
Let’s move on.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRian
1255 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 am

I finally got around to trying the new comping over the weekend and I like it; fold to takes is awesome! It's perfect for splicing together loops, to create something new/fresh and I can see myself using it a lot for my lead sounds too, to bounce between different variations.
Always Read the Manual!

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KVRAF
19870 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:48 am

PieBerger wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 am
I finally got around to trying the new comping over the weekend and I like it; fold to takes is awesome! It's perfect for splicing together loops, to create something new/fresh and I can see myself using it a lot for my lead sounds too, to bounce between different variations.
It's a lot of fun!

Couple things for fast workflow...
1 - if I want to drop in some short samples as takes to cut them in, there is no way to position them.
2 - as is, I'm not able to drop audio from the timeline or clip launcher directly into a take.

KVRian
1255 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:59 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:48 am
PieBerger wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 am
I finally got around to trying the new comping over the weekend and I like it; fold to takes is awesome! It's perfect for splicing together loops, to create something new/fresh and I can see myself using it a lot for my lead sounds too, to bounce between different variations.
It's a lot of fun!

Couple things for fast workflow...
1 - if I want to drop in some short samples as takes to cut them in, there is no way to position them.
2 - as is, I'm not able to drop audio from the timeline or clip launcher directly into a take.
I'd like the same enhancements, but I'm happy enough as is for the time being!
Always Read the Manual!

KVRian
775 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:57 pm

If you use proper, real, big projects with 50+ M4L devices in Live, you'll watch your system kneeled down. And then you'll switch to Bitwig because this one can hold all the modulation one can throw at it without breaking a sweat because is the core of the daw, not a 3rd party code slapped over as is M4L.

Yes, in theory anything is possible in Live/m4l. In practice not too much is possible due to a very wasteful resource management (especially on Windows).

And yes, in theory less is possible in Bitwig but surprisingly anything is possible in practice because Bitwig gives 0 f's, no matter how many modulators I throw at it.

So scratch the surface and dig deeper and then come back with your findings - specs flexing is pretty useless for irl situations.
liquidsound wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:35 pm
because I'm getting more and more into M4L in my music production and I'm barely scratched the surface with it and probably it will be more "frequent' in time, and while I found BW modulation system well integrate, I think it lack the almost unlimited ecosystem that M4L provides.

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