Why do most DAW browsers suck?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRian
1372 posts since 2 Jul, 2007

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am

Excluding Cubase and Nuendo, can anyone name another DAW that actually can tag content,samples,fx,patches,loops etc? Logic finally allows user locations in a better way, but damn.

When I say suck, I mean zero tagging, even Native Instruments Kore and Machine,Komplete Kontrol synths like Omnisphere destroy DAW browsers in terms of searching for instruments by tag, Why? Do developers not recognize the need for this sort of workflow?
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KVRian
659 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:29 am

trusampler wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
Excluding Cubase and Nuendo, can anyone name another DAW that actually can tag content,samples,fx,patches,loops etc? Logic finally allows user locations in a better way, but damn.

When I say suck, I mean zero tagging, even Native Instruments Kore and Machine,Komplete Kontrol synths like Omnisphere destroy DAW browsers in terms of searching for instruments by tag, Why? Do developers not recognize the need for this sort of workflow?
Bitwig has tagging and has Fuzzy search. It doesn't have the granularity of something like Maschine or Komplete Kontrol but the only reason NI has that is because they literally make every instrument and sample pack on those devices. Try that with something external like a Splice library or 3rd party non-nks VST and you will start to see why most DAWs don't really bother.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

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addled muppet weed
80673 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:34 am

omnisphere has thousands of patches
your daw has your vsts, if you have thousands, you might just be better deleting some that tagging the others?

KVRian

Topic Starter

1372 posts since 2 Jul, 2007

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:25 am

Cubase /Nuendo have the best browser in any daw imo, and it's proof that it can be done, to tag vsts,fx,audio files etc, I've still yet to find Bitwigs browser in the same league.Perhaps Bitwig 4 will be better..

Presonus Studio One,which I'm a fan of, has the most boring of all again my opinion,zero tagging, which is a shame,especially since they claim they have a great workflow. :uhuhuh: not when it comes to tagging files in a browser.
Cpu: Win10/Intel Core i9-10900K + Apple Mac OSX/BigSur/Slate VMS/Antelope Audio Discrete 8 Synergy Core
Synths: Sequential Prophet 10|OB-6/Deepmind 12/Virus TI2 61/Waldorf Blofeld/Yamaha Motif XS7/Akai MPC X

KVRAF
1996 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:51 pm

trusampler wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:25 am
Presonus Studio One,which I'm a fan of, has the most boring of all again my opinion,zero tagging, which is a shame,especially since they claim they have a great workflow. :uhuhuh: not when it comes to tagging files in a browser.

For Studio One, download the Sound Set Builder 4 Extension from the cloud tab in Studio One, and follow Marcus Huskens video in how to tag your content. Main info begins from 1.40. You'll need to restart Studio One for the extension to be properly initialised.

Notice in the bottom right corner of the video screenshot in where the tags are shown ( at the bottom you'll see a new text field for 'Tags' you will find in the Files tab. Click on the 'Tag' button and the tag menu will pop out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYDlMMm8LfU

So there is tagging... it's just there as an extension.

And with Effects and Instruments for those who don't know, you have a favorites system as well to tag them as in their own folder as well.

You can create your own route tab for folders as well, so you can quickly access any sample content you have.

So as you'll find, Studio One's Browser is really quite flexible not just in managing things visually but in access and management as well, including tagging.
Last edited by THE INTRANCER on Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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KVRAF
32544 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:08 pm

The Tracktion Waveform browser can tag anything (although I mainly use it to tag plugins and racks it can also tag samples and presets)

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KVRist
347 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:15 pm

I actually like how Reason handles their browser. I'm more of a, I know what folder to look in and not really wanting to look up something like "kick" and end up with a list of 5000 kicks

KVRist
178 posts since 9 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:06 pm

trusampler wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
Do developers not recognize the need for this sort of workflow?
I agree it should just be built into the DAW but there are other tools out there these days like Loopcloud which is a very great tool for tagging, previewing, and searching for samples. Hell I'd say it's better than pretty much any DAW out there.

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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:16 pm

trusampler wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
Excluding Cubase and Nuendo, can anyone name another DAW that actually can tag content,samples,fx,patches,loops etc? Logic finally allows user locations in a better way, but damn.

When I say suck, I mean zero tagging, even Native Instruments Kore and Machine,Komplete Kontrol synths like Omnisphere destroy DAW browsers in terms of searching for instruments by tag, Why? Do developers not recognize the need for this sort of workflow?
I don't even know what you're talking about. What tags would you put on an instrument? "Synth"!?! It seems like it would be a huge waste of time to me.
aMUSEd wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:08 pm
The Tracktion Waveform browser can tag anything (although I mainly use it to tag plugins and racks it can also tag samples and presets)
Are you honestly so stupid you can't remember than Chorus JUN-6 is a chorus effect and/or where to find it when you want to use it? I have more than 300 VSTs installed and I never have trouble finding anything.
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KVRian
1248 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:26 pm

And here comes mr. Bones - the same old record stuck on repeat 😁
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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KVRian
954 posts since 14 Apr, 2008 from /* whitenoise */

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:22 am

The Live browser is quite powerful once it's understood. The search tool is quite good and is showing all content like vst's... Search for Valhalla and you'll get all valhalla plugins+ whatever is called valhalla too. The find and collect function is also really helpful. And I think 7 color tags are enough. It forces you to make decisions instead of own tags. I have to say though that I don't use presets and use only my own samples recordings etc. and everything is well named and reduced so no 6000 kicks or imaginary names for sounds (like a bass called "Blackout Mass).
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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:03 am

pixel85 wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:26 pm
And here comes mr. Bones - the same old record stuck on repeat 😁
The thing is, I don't expect everything to be made just the way I want it, I am happy to adapt to the environment. In this instance, I don't see any merit in using tags when you could just as easily organise things yourself, in ways that work. e.g. You could spend 5 minutes adding a few sub-folders and organising your plugins into them, rather than sitting on your fat duff and whinging because your host won't organise things for you. It works in Windows Explorer, it works in Finder, it will work in any 3rd party file browser and it's probably less effort than going through and adding tags to everything. You're welcome.
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KVRAF
1656 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:12 am

ya dont naa-eed ta tag em

KVRist
88 posts since 29 Dec, 2019

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:34 am

BONES wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:16 pm
trusampler wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:53 am
Excluding Cubase and Nuendo, can anyone name another DAW that actually can tag content,samples,fx,patches,loops etc? Logic finally allows user locations in a better way, but damn.

When I say suck, I mean zero tagging, even Native Instruments Kore and Machine,Komplete Kontrol synths like Omnisphere destroy DAW browsers in terms of searching for instruments by tag, Why? Do developers not recognize the need for this sort of workflow?
I don't even know what you're talking about. What tags would you put on an instrument? "Synth"!?! It seems like it would be a huge waste of time to me.
aMUSEd wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:08 pm
The Tracktion Waveform browser can tag anything (although I mainly use it to tag plugins and racks it can also tag samples and presets)
Are you honestly so stupid you can't remember than Chorus JUN-6 is a chorus effect and/or where to find it when you want to use it? I have more than 300 VSTs installed and I never have trouble finding anything.
Synths can be Analog Emulations, Digital, Cinematic, Percussion, Subtractive, Additive, Granular, Spectral, FM, Hybrid, Sample-based, etc.

So, yea, it's useful for Synths as well.

Also, choosing specific examples that are plainly obvious is intentionally missing the point simply to argue about the matter being discussed...

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GRRRRRRR!
11946 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:36 pm

How is that relevant to what you're doing, though? I have never in the 40 years I've been using synths thought "this is a job for a "cinematic synth" because, as far as I'm concerned, every synth I own is capable of doing "cinematic" sounds. Every synth is capable of doing "analogue emulation", even a DX7. Every synth is capable of doing "percussion" and all the rest of it. Seriously, go through the presets in any synth you own and look at all the different categories of sounds they break the presets into. And I don't have so many granular synths that I need to remind myself which ones they are.

What I am much more likely to want to recall is which synth has a particular patch I remember hearing 12 or 18 months ago when I got it, so being able to favourite patches within a synth's own browser is really handy, as is Studio One's ability to favourite a plugin with a particular patch pre-loaded. But tagging your plugins is ridiculous.
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