Live 11!

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
7665 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 am

Live pretty much has everything now (for the way that it is designed to work) other than pitch correction, I am pretty sure it is coming and it makes sense that they would add scales first!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
9325 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:40 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 am
Live pretty much has everything now (for the way that it is designed to work) other than pitch correction, I am pretty sure it is coming and it makes sense that they would add scales first!
No alias clips, which I still can't reconcile with it being THE loop-based DAW :dog:
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
7665 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:47 am

I never understood what 'alias clips' were anyway, but we have follow actions in session now and I am happy with that, Some people seem to swear by Clyphx, never used it myself...it seems a lot of the features were put in Live 11 anyway, so be interesting to see if they make a new version of this.

https://isotonikstudios.com/product/clyphx-pro/
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
9325 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:13 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:47 am
I never understood what 'alias clips' were anyway
In terms of behaviour they're patterns in FL, blocks in Reason or shared copies in Studio One.

Basically there's a 'link' between original clip and its copies, that - unless you break it - any change you make to the original or one of the copies is carried over to the rest of them. Obviously this should be optional & not the default behaviour. So for example you draft a track in Session View, then move the bits & pieces to Arrangement. Currently, if you want to change something and keep both in sync, you need to do it at least twice and more likely dozens of times, because lots of elements repeat anyway. Alias clips would help avoiding a lot of that work.

(cue the comments about repetitive music and how for real musician no two clips are the same - let's skip this, please...)
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
7665 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:13 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:47 am
I never understood what 'alias clips' were anyway
In terms of behaviour they're patterns in FL, blocks in Reason or shared copies in Studio One.

Basically there's a 'link' between original clip and its copies, that - unless you break it - any change you make to the original or one of the copies is carried over to the rest of them. Obviously this should be optional & not the default behaviour. So for example you draft a track in Session View, then move the bits & pieces to Arrangement. Currently, if you want to change something and keep both in sync, you need to do it at least twice and more likely dozens of times, because lots of elements repeat anyway. Alias clips would help avoiding a lot of that work.

(cue the comments about repetitive music and how for real musician no two clips are the same - let's skip this, please...)
Ah, OK- I read about this before (or ghost clips?) anyway, it can be done in MAX apparently (can't everything!)

Anyway- this work? http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/

Its amazing how many things people want/need that had never even occurred to me, I just don't think I am that advanced!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
9325 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:10 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 am
Anyway- this work? http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
Yes, I'm aware of it but the workflow is pretty klunky, like with most M4L stuff that's trying to extend native functionality.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
7665 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:08 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:10 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 am
Anyway- this work? http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
Yes, I'm aware of it but the workflow is pretty klunky, like with most M4L stuff that's trying to extend native functionality.
I haven't tried it, it isn't something I have ever felt I was missing that workflow personally, but I know a lot of people ask for ghost/alias clips so maybe it will come- they at least added linked editing in arranger mode...now that I do use!
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
3589 posts since 15 Oct, 2017 from U.S.

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:11 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:10 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:51 am
Anyway- this work? http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
Yes, I'm aware of it but the workflow is pretty klunky, like with most M4L stuff that's trying to extend native functionality.
Which do you enjoy more, talking down live in the Bigwig threads or talking down Live in the Live threads? You certainly spend a lot of time at both,so it's hard to tell

User avatar
KVRAF
9325 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:16 am

melomood wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:11 am
Which do you enjoy more, talking down live in the Bigwig threads or talking down Live in the Live threads? You certainly spend a lot of time at both,so it's hard to tell
Am I supposed to be only propping one against the other? I want both (or actually all 5 DAWs that I have...) to improve and I aim to look at them fairly & objectively, hence I'm able to - clearly, I hope - see their pros & cons.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
647 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:16 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:13 am
SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:47 am
I never understood what 'alias clips' were anyway
In terms of behaviour they're patterns in FL, blocks in Reason or shared copies in Studio One.

Basically there's a 'link' between original clip and its copies, that - unless you break it - any change you make to the original or one of the copies is carried over to the rest of them. Obviously this should be optional & not the default behaviour. So for example you draft a track in Session View, then move the bits & pieces to Arrangement. Currently, if you want to change something and keep both in sync, you need to do it at least twice and more likely dozens of times, because lots of elements repeat anyway. Alias clips would help avoiding a lot of that work.

(cue the comments about repetitive music and how for real musician no two clips are the same - let's skip this, please...)
I wonder if there is some kind of technical reason why this isn't implemented. Logic which does have alias clips and has had them forever doesn't do alias clips in the Live Loop area. If you try to copy an alias clip you will get a message saying alias clips are not supported in the Live Loop grid. So maybe there is some kind fo technical reason why it works this way since Live, Bitwig, and Logic all have the same issue (I don't use DP so I don't know if that has the same limitation). This seems to be a limitation on the Akai Force as well.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

User avatar
KVRAF
6793 posts since 30 Apr, 2019

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:23 am

I don’t see any technical limitation other than someone hasn’t implemented it. In theory it’s just things pointing to the same object in memory rather than a bunch of distinct objects, passing data ‘by reference’ as opposed to ‘by value’.

KVRAF
7665 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:39 am

apoclypse wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:16 am
So maybe there is some kind fo technical reason why it works this way since Live, Bitwig, and Logic all have the same issue (I don't use DP so I don't know if that has the same limitation). This seems to be a limitation on the Akai Force as well.
That is very interesting! I don t know much about it, but does that MAX thing I posed actually do what you guys are looking for (even if it is clunky) as that would seem to be a 'proof of concept' if it does work?
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
9325 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:54 am

apoclypse wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:16 am
I wonder if there is some kind of technical reason why this isn't implemented...
I don't think so. In one of the Learn Live videos they are visibly proud that a clip in Arrangement that was copied from Session View is completely independent from its source. I guess that was the design goal. I can't imagine it is impossible to extend a clip database with some alias_ID and a process that updates all alias_ID clips when one of them is changed?

With regards to Bitwig, I have a suspicion they simply copied it from Live without thinking much about it, as they did with many other things that definitely could use some improvement, but never received it... Still, I'm remaining hopeful for Bitwig to include them eventually because Claes' new project clearly mentions "alias clips" in one of code examples, so at least he's aware of them :wink:
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
647 posts since 17 Oct, 2018

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:57 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:39 am
apoclypse wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:16 am
So maybe there is some kind fo technical reason why it works this way since Live, Bitwig, and Logic all have the same issue (I don't use DP so I don't know if that has the same limitation). This seems to be a limitation on the Akai Force as well.
That is very interesting! I don t know much about it, but does that MAX thing I posed actually do what you guys are looking for (even if it is clunky) as that would seem to be a 'proof of concept' if it does work?
Yeah I'm not going to pay more money (even if it's just $10 dollars) for that.
Studio One 5.2 // Bitwig 3.3.4 // Logic Pro X 10.6 // Ableton 11 // Reason 11 // MPC // Force // Maschine

KVRist
111 posts since 4 Oct, 2017 from France/Germany

Post Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:28 am

Hey I don't know if it's the right place. But I am looking for a place on the web, where you can find and download rack presets for Ableton Live. I did not find any for now, has anyone any idea ?

I would like to know if there is something that allow easy sharing of fx or instruments racks for Live. I also got some fx racks I would like to share, and do not know where to post them...

Thanks !
Take your change to win a mastering at the new french service Level Up Mastering, like this Facebook page to enter the contest !

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”