Bitwig users? Tried it and didn't like? Looking for Melda user perspective.

[Annabanna]

I've been on Logic for 20 years now after a few years on Cubase, but I'm getting a new system this year (still undecided what type) and I see Bitwig has finally added vocal comping which was my dealbreaker for taking a closer look previously.

Bitwig certainly SEEMS to work more like I think in terms of a modular workflow which is, of course, much of what drew me to Melda.

The plugin sandboxing sounds good too since it's usually the same few plugins crashing my Logic session.

So... I'd like to get any input from Melda power users that have tried Bitwig.

1) What works about it for you or doesn't?

2) What are you able to do with it that is difficult or impossible with other DAW's?

3) What limitations does it have or elements are easier to work with on other daw's?

4) Do you find yourself using MXXX differently due to the additional tools in Bitwig?

5) How much do you rely on tools like polygrid / fx grid as opposed to MXXX? Or... how do you use them in conjunction?

[steve2KVR]

...just wondering, which "same few plugins crashing my Logic session?" I haven't had a crash in years on my rigs, and run lots of different stuff on different platforms. I've had CPU limitations/etc, but no outright crashes. So changing DAWs my not solve your problems. Admittedly, not a Bitwig guy (no particular reason), but I do run on several DAWs...hth.../s~

ps. I'm all in on Melda though, since maybe version 5?...cross platform, baby, cross platform...

[Annabanna]

...just wondering, which "same few plugins crashing my Logic session?"

Actually, lately, it's mainly MXXX, but that's because I've been wiring up ridiculously complex instruments with a matrix full of fx in place, lots of latency, insanely complex reverbs, etc. Happens in that case mainly when I switch between A-H versions while session is running. So long as I stop the session when switching complex patches, it's generally OK.

I tend to get rid of the ones that have been problematic, so I've stopped using Nebula, for instance despite it having some really great patches.

Sandboxing seems useful in non daily use ways too like when trying new plugins or testing out backchannel features of suites like Izotope's.

[Kumal]

No melda user but with Bitwig and its Grid you can get rid of melda. When i needed to decide between modular instruments/fx I just chose Bitwig as all in one solution. The only thing I noticed is certain plugin graphics/editors may create issues with Bitwig. Since melda plugins are pretty demanding in that regard, that might become an issue one day.

[steve2KVR]

@Kumal, "get rid of melda." using mxxx or the plugins in general?.../s~

[Kumal]

Oh sorry, i meant MXXX/MSF at least. Since the grid is an open ballpark similar to them with 150+ modules. And it is totally integrated into the daw itself which makes stuff a lot easier. And I think once it allows integrating 3rd party plugins similar to FL Studios patcher it'll be something even hardcore melda users would care about (iirc many already asked about 3rd party plugin support in mxxx!?).

[liquidsound]

Oh sorry, i meant MXXX/MSF at least. Since the grid is an open ballpark similar to them with 150+ modules. And it is totally integrated into the daw itself which makes stuff a lot easier. And I think once it allows integrating 3rd party plugins similar to FL Studios patcher it'll be something even hardcore melda users would care about (iirc many already asked about 3rd party plugin support in mxxx!?).

MUX from Mutools, in the meantime, can do that and more.

[Annabanna]

I could be wrong, but I got the general impression that Bitwig can do things beyond what any plugin that contains plugins can do because it also then allows integration of various elements beyond basic sidechaining... like using something going on within a plugin on one channel to then modulate something within another plugin on a separate channel.

Is that right?

Also, someone in one of the tuts I just watched mentioned something about "creating" reverbs. I've gotten WAY into MTR lately including some non-traditional uses, so I'd be interested to see what that means exactly in Bitwig.

[Held]

Bitwig grid is much more low-level than Melda. You can probably do most of what MXXX and MSF do, but it's a lot more work to set it up. If you want to do additive, you have to add a bunch of oscillator modules and wire them together with a mixer, and there's no analyzer to help you replicate the timbre of real instruments and objects. You can build your own Karplus-Strong resonator, but it's much more work than the resonator or string module in MSF.

The modulators are pretty cool, though, and there are some that MXXX doesn't have. But there are also plugins in the MeldaVerse that are difficult or impossible to reproduce with Bitwig like MCabinet or MSpectralDynamics.

I think Melda and Bitwig work really well together, and while there's some overlap, there's still unique stuff in both.

My main reason to switch from REAPER was the loop based workflow. If you're looking for a linear workflow or work mostly with recordings, it might not be the right choices.

Bitwig has still fewer options compared to REAPER which has been around much longer, but everything is well thought out, so I don't miss REAPER's customizability that much.

I don't know much about Cubase and Logic, so I don't know how it compares.

[mevla]

I do not agree that Bitwig's extras can replace full-fledged plugins developed by dedicated people. For instance, I find that the Bitwig synths are way too cold and square. None can be compared with u-he's Diva, Dark Zebra, Repro-5, Hive. Same with the audio plugins. They fit a certain genre. Why would I use a Bitwig delay when there's MTurboReverb that can deliver all kinds of nuances ? Same with Bitwig's drum machine.

I use the Bitwig sampler from time to time though. Perhaps because I haven't got into the sampling functions of MSF yet.

As for Melda crashes, I do not recall any and I run them all under Linux.

Forgot. I run Bitwig 2.4.3. So much for caring to upgrade to get the grid isn't it.

[Fleer]

Bitwig 4 (almost) with MSF. Perfect pair.

[] Peter:H []

1) What works about it for you or doesn't?
Bitwig is really a dream for me. I can feel the devs have a mindset that I like. The modularity concept right built into the DAW is really appealing to me. And it's a promise that many cool things will follow in the future.

2) What are you able to do with it that is difficult or impossible with other DAW's?
All the Modulation stuff. For instance is "Unisono" built in in all synths, but - you can use the "Voices" Modulator to modulate arbitrary parameters per voice. You can control panning, but you can control as well the filter setting per unisono-voice.
Building chains of fx, I miss to have FX-slots for the feedback paths in MeldaDelays... I love the Multiband-Containers in Bitwig. Overall I think Bitwig has the cleverer structure of basic building blocks AND offer that on DAW level.
I can build a multiband delay in bitwig, with three different delays which themselves have three different feedback fx... Or I can even build a multiband fx with three completely different fx chains right in the DAW and modulate everything And it's all built into the DAW, that's just amazing. Sure the Multiband stuff is just three bands, but I can live with that.

3) What limitations does it have or elements are easier to work with on other daw's?
It's version 4! It cannot be that mature as other DAWs which are at version 11 or beyond.
What I miss is for instance applying panning to fx sends which is possible in Cubase. And Cubase has some really great internal plugins as well, like the "Frequency" EQ. Reverbs in Bitwig are meh as well. I Use Melda or Valhallas free one ...
But my first choice nowadays is often Bitwig only. Because I know if I stay in their eco system I can get the most of it. And the Operators stuff they introduce in Version 4 is simply crazy...

4) Do you find yourself using MXXX differently due to the additional tools in Bitwig?
I find my self using MXXX and MSF far less and more Bitwig only.

5) How much do you rely on tools like polygrid / fx grid as opposed to MXXX? Or... how do you use them in conjunction?
Grid is different to MSF. I think Grid is modular in a more traditional sense. MSF for instance does not have Gate signals. Grid has. In MSF you cannot simply modulate one OSC by another one. In Grid simply hook up Oscillators to get FM. The Cross-Oscillator Module in MSF is just a workaround that introduces latency (12,5 msec on my system).

In general more and more features grow into the DAWs themselves. Cubase "Frequency" was an addition which made me neglegt Melda EQs.

What is really still speciall is for instance MSpectralDynamics which is really a very unique kind of beast.

All that is just my 2 cents.