Soundtoys are they now overated? My thinking is...

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRian
719 posts since 14 Jul, 2018

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:51 am

LeVzi wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:47 am

Ironically, I was going through various filter vst's I have (NONE HAVE DAMN MSEG OPTIONS)
afaik UVI shade has meseg
https://www.uvi.net/shade

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KVRAF
6693 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:01 am

Overrated? No. Room for improvement? Of course.

v1o
KVRAF
2807 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:56 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:22 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:13 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:50 am
v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:42 am
That's like saying the Lexicon or TC Electronic reverb sound is dated. If a plug-in sounds good it is never dated. The thing with Soundtoys is that they have a signature sound which is now established as a thing in many genres. Listen to any Tchad Blake record like the Black Keys or Arctic Monkeys - they have the Soundtoys sound all over them.
Can you quote someone that actually claimed that Soundtoys plugins are overrated because their sound is dated, so your post have actually any merit instead of just hitting straw man for the sake of it.
FiloFi wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:37 am
I think in summary I think they were the doggy doodads back in the day but now. Nah
So nobody...
I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about sound. When he says they're no longer as good as other cheaper plugins.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

KVRAF
1725 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:33 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:53 am
I feel they are overrated too, mostly because competition caught up and they pretty much stopped developing their plugins further, they were kinda must have not long ago, now you can get few Valhalla DSP's and ShaperBox and pretty much forget they exist.
^This.

Decapitator is the only one of the whole bundle that I consider 'indispensable' at this point.

But, actually, SDRR2 is a perfectly acceptable replacement at a fraction of the price and no iLok, so nevermind...
https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp.com/ - Noir-themed Dark Jazz
https://tvhwy.bandcamp.com/releases - classic IDM by TV HWY
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

KVRAF
2531 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:38 am

v1o wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:56 am
I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about sound. When he says they're no longer as good as other cheaper plugins.
I'm pretty sure we are talking about market relevance and he's complaining about everything except the sound, don't think anyone can say they aren't still top tools and they don't sound awesome, but in same way don't think anyone can say there's no competition to them, that even cost less, also that there's no room for improvements, pretty much everyone agrees with that so far, only thing is that we all have different view about whole overrated aspect, which is perfectly normal.

User avatar
KVRAF
2740 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am

muki wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:51 am
LeVzi wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:47 am

Ironically, I was going through various filter vst's I have (NONE HAVE DAMN MSEG OPTIONS)
afaik UVI shade has meseg
https://www.uvi.net/shade
That looks the business, but not at 129 Euros, thanks though.
Forward ever, Backward never

User avatar
KVRian
719 posts since 14 Jul, 2018

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:00 pm

LeVzi wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am
That looks the business, but not at 129 Euros, thanks though.
meanwhile UVI has sales from time to time (black-something, xmas, summer etc)...
up to -50% occasionally
..for the patient one...

User avatar
KVRist
258 posts since 2 Sep, 2012

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:16 pm

I wouldn’t say overrated, just getting a little dated at this point, although still good sound wise. I don’t see a lot of people always talking up how great they are, so how can they be overrated? Soundtoys has a name and reputation, for sure, well deserved too. If they want that to continue then they’ll need to update and compete with recently released products, but that’s totally up to them.

Things have been generally quiet from them, maybe they’re up to something...good if they are, and if not then there are plenty of other options, which I’m sure we’re all using some of them. Soundtoys will keep getting used by a lot of people for a good time to come, I’m sure, as long as they keep the products workable on new systems. How sales will go for them over time is another matter, my guess is they will decline if they don’t update.

I picked up the bundle second hand a few years ago but rarely use most of it. I do really like Little Plate and Primal Tap though. I’d like to see what they’d bring in an update, and see the rack updated to add more features, mentioned earlier in the thread, but if not then I’m fine.

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KVRAF
4420 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:37 pm

Some products have a defined end-of-life. It depends on the vision of the team and changing market conditions. There are so many variable at play and end users are often out of the loop until it impacts the business. The scenarios are vast and anything is possible. I was posting in another thread about the perils of buying 3rd party plugins; how companies can just stop working on a product and let it die. Sometimes it can be vague as to if they are still viable or shut down - that is unnerving for customers. But those are the risks at play.

If I were to be forced to speculate, I would think they are working on the next gen of their product. Unless there are other unknows at play, it would seem extrapolating on a successful product is a likely path. I'll go further and suggest some feature updates to the next gen: resizable, over-sampling options, updated GUI's but not too far, some products remain mostly the same, some are enhanced so much they become the next gen and some new products in the line. Sweet intro price and no-brainer upgrade price. Carry on from there.

User avatar
KVRian
630 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm

most plugins are 'start-of-life' defined lol... they are money grabs and nothing more. same old shyte with a new face. soundtoys were good plugs but now there are so many others that are just as good if not better. i got the whole bunch for like $69 bundle upgrade because i had all the free ones lol so i got my money's worth out of them. i still used Decap up until i purchased Saturn 2.

it is sad they were never further developed and it seems like abandonware now. they could definitely benefit from sizable GUI's and the addition of oversampling but don't hold your breath on that. if it weren't for paying ilok to transfer them over i would sell them but pace wants about as much as i have in the bloody things to even fathom selling. now they are collecting virtual dust.

just my 2 cents that ain't worth 2 cents anymore lol

cheers

a willow tree is strong enough to bend
never like the oak who lives in fear of the wind


KVRAF
21057 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:07 pm

MadDogE134 wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm
i still used Decap up until i purchased Saturn 2.
I have both of these - love the former and basically never use the latter (mainly because it seems overly complicated to me and I think doesn't really sound very good)... :shrug:

User avatar
KVRian
630 posts since 26 Nov, 2007

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:47 pm

yeah there is a lot of tweaking lol... i don't do a lot of that but i DO like how i can adjust just the sections i want saturated if needed... i just use it as wideband for the most part. i am the opposite though... i use it a lot now but i still put Decap on drums. it is simple, fast and gets the job done and it really beefs up the skins.

p.s. and one thing i really like Saturn 2 for is to overly saturate the mid and top end on some synths for added growl and sizzle :) it is just nice to be able to place emphasis :wink: cheers

a willow tree is strong enough to bend
never like the oak who lives in fear of the wind


User avatar
KVRAF
2740 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:47 pm

muki wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:00 pm
LeVzi wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am
That looks the business, but not at 129 Euros, thanks though.
meanwhile UVI has sales from time to time (black-something, xmas, summer etc)...
up to -50% occasionally
..for the patient one...
I will keep my eye out.
Forward ever, Backward never

KVRAF
1669 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from $HOME

Post Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:44 am

They’re vintage! Don’t dis them, one day you’ll miss them.

KVR in 2028: “Now we have all the perfectly circuit modelled plugins we want, with 128xoversampling, AI and ML, but do you remember Soundtoys Decapitator with its nice gritty aliasing? Modern plugin sjust can’t replicate that…”

User avatar
KVRian
816 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:52 am

jens wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:07 pm
MadDogE134 wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm
i still used Decap up until i purchased Saturn 2.
I have both of these - love the former and basically never use the latter (mainly because it seems overly complicated to me and I think doesn't really sound very good)... :shrug:
I was quite excited to try Saturn 2, but didn't love the sound. It felt mushy to me.

Decapitator is obviously a bit less flexible, but has a nice range from gentle saturation to slightly gnarly distortion and is really usable.

I think radiator and devil loc are also pretty good alternative saturation/dirt option.

I don't think echoboy has the fidelity of e.g. UAD delays, but it's still a great versatile delay. The filter and phase both sounds really nice and juicy. microshift is very decent etc. No bad plug ins.

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