Why you left Bitwig?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
1709 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:27 pm

On a side note, I downloaded and tried Bitwig 4 on an M1 iMac. Pretty darn snappy.

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KVRAF
7438 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:36 pm

sQeetz wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:14 pm
EnGee wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:06 pm
sQeetz wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:12 am
EnGee wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:08 am
I haven't noticed this before! Is it a Mac only bug? I'll give it try on Linux/Windows and see.
I think it's Mac only. Don't know if it also happens with Intel Macs, though.
Yes, it happens with all plugins, but... It is only if the plugin window is not active! When the Plugin windows is active, it is "normal". Actually, it might be good because it tells me that the window is not active ;)
It wouldn't bother me that much if that was the case. ;) If you watch the small clip I posted a few posts ago, you can see that I click on the plugin (to make it active) click on a knob and move it a little bit and still the mouse pointer icon changes to whatever is beneath the plugin window when hovering around the plugin window.
I have seen your video. It is really strange! I don't have such behaviour!! I mean after making the window active, it behaves normal. For the reference, I have OS 11.4 on MacBook Air and Bitwig 4.01. RePro is VST 3 (tested). I also tested Padshop 2 (vst 3 not native) and DuneCM (Vst 2 non native) and all behaved the same as I mentioned. As soon as I click anywhere in the window, the cursor turns to the default arrow and keeps this way till I click outside the window.
Mostly: Cubase 11 Pro, Bitwig Studio 4, RP Explorer 6, NI K12, Arturia VC7 + SQ80 V, Keylab 49 MK ii, MODX 6, KK M32 and ATOM

KVRer
9 posts since 28 Jul, 2021

Post Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:24 am

me too, bitwig 4 on m1 is nice !

KVRer
6 posts since 2 Jan, 2018

Post Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:13 pm

Tried and bought BitWig 4.

This comparison is mostly with my two main DAWs, FL and Live.

Dropped because

+ mostly because of the lack of integration of Ctrl+Z into VST undo. Live and FL do it, and I'm too used to it by now.
+ the lack of scale highlighting (FL and Live do it)
+ lack of clips alias (only FL does it, but I love it for it)

KVRAF
1709 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:33 pm

I took another look and it was snappy, and didn't hear any audio glitches, but the CPU usage was well over 50% for the demo song. Not sure what it would be on Intel, but I was a bit surprised it was that high.

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KVRist
389 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Post Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:20 pm

jonljacobi wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:33 pm
I took another look and it was snappy, and didn't hear any audio glitches, but the CPU usage was well over 50% for the demo song. Not sure what it would be on Intel, but I was a bit surprised it was that high.
On my intel laptop it's kinda heavy as well Though on my desktop it's kinda a joke to run but that's also a R7 3700X running the show at 4.2GHz
Would be shocked if it had issues
Both ran on my desktop at 10-13%
My tiny small thing I made on my laptop which wasnt all that crazy ran at 40% on it. Granted it's just an i5 7th gen but still, ableton Live 11 runs like butter

KVRAF
3485 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:51 pm

I’m running BWS in a surface pro and it’s slightly better than Ableton.
Diva - Dune - Omnisphere - Serum - Spire

KVRian
1092 posts since 6 Mar, 2004

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am

Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.

KVRian
1257 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am

Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.
It's still miles better than Live though, which is it's closest competitor. Audio editing is not likely to ever match Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and other tape-recorder style DAWs, but it's serviceable and Bitwig is light years ahead in other areas, like modulation. It's always going to be a balancing act. If any DAW did everything well,we'd still be here complaining because it would be a cumbersome, bloated nightmare :lol:
Always Read the Manual!

KVRian
620 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:06 am

PieBerger wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am
Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.
It's still miles better than Live though, which is it's closest competitor. Audio editing is not likely to ever match Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and other tape-recorder style DAWs, but it's serviceable and Bitwig is light years ahead in other areas, like modulation. It's always going to be a balancing act. If any DAW did everything well,we'd still be here complaining because it would be a cumbersome, bloated nightmare :lol:
I must agree on the modulations vs Live and some other audio editing features but I’m having problems with BW when it comes to be accurate with the Onsets (Live is way more accurate) and the inability to insert Warp Markers to the whole selected area, at once, and subsequently Quantize the audio with it avoiding Slice/Quantize (and Legato? which adds unwanted audio sections back) and leaving me with undesired slice material.

Loving the rest but miles ahead? No yet.
I’m importing tons of unfinished material from Live to give it a new life based on BW workflow and tools but the above is a serious issue no to discard lightly.

Doing so is definitely a pledge to turn a blind eye just to have a personal winner in a fight.
Last edited by Biscotto on Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ableton > :phones: < Bitwig

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KVRAF
10001 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:27 am

Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle.
Just bounce-in-place the clip (I believe Ctrl+B is the default?) after you've joined several audio events together and then it's one continuous clip (like Live's Ctrl+J).

That should solve it and there's multitude of benefits to having audio events within a clip, biggest of them being the ability to acutally edit audio directly in the Clip Launcher! Having to drag out a clip to Arrangement and back in order to cut, reverse, stretch, etc. a partion of it is a ridiculous "workflow". Plus the new Operators work on audio events as if they were MIDI notes, so that's awesome for glitchy stuff on-the-fly.
Last edited by antic604 on Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRian
1257 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:14 am

Biscotto wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:06 am
PieBerger wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am
Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.
It's still miles better than Live though, which is it's closest competitor. Audio editing is not likely to ever match Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and other tape-recorder style DAWs, but it's serviceable and Bitwig is light years ahead in other areas, like modulation. It's always going to be a balancing act. If any DAW did everything well,we'd still be here complaining because it would be a cumbersome, bloated nightmare :lol:
I must agree on the modulations vs Live and some other audio editing features but I’m having problems with BW when it comes to be accurate with the Onsets (Live is way more accurate) and the inability to insert Warp Markers to the whole selected area, at once, and subsequently Quantize the audio with it avoiding Slice/Quantize (and Legato? which adds unwanted audio sections back) and leaving me with undesired slice material.

Loving the rest but miles ahead? No yet.
I’m importing tons of unfinished material from Live to give it a new life based on BW workflow and tools but the above is a serious issue no to discard lightly.

Doing so is definitely a pledge to turn a blind eye just to have a personal winner in a fight.
This is my bias creeping in here. Bounce in place, slice in place, cursor tools, multiclip fades on the same channel and container clips for audio make it "miles ahead" for me personally. I agree that the warping in Bitwig isn't as good as Live and if you're workflow is reliant on this, I can understand Bitwig feeling inferior. Thanks for keeping me in check :)
Always Read the Manual!

KVRian
620 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:59 am

PieBerger wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:14 am
Biscotto wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:06 am
PieBerger wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:15 am
Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.
It's still miles better than Live though, which is it's closest competitor. Audio editing is not likely to ever match Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and other tape-recorder style DAWs, but it's serviceable and Bitwig is light years ahead in other areas, like modulation. It's always going to be a balancing act. If any DAW did everything well,we'd still be here complaining because it would be a cumbersome, bloated nightmare :lol:
I must agree on the modulations vs Live and some other audio editing features but I’m having problems with BW when it comes to be accurate with the Onsets (Live is way more accurate) and the inability to insert Warp Markers to the whole selected area, at once, and subsequently Quantize the audio with it avoiding Slice/Quantize (and Legato? which adds unwanted audio sections back) and leaving me with undesired slice material.

Loving the rest but miles ahead? No yet.
I’m importing tons of unfinished material from Live to give it a new life based on BW workflow and tools but the above is a serious issue no to discard lightly.

Doing so is definitely a pledge to turn a blind eye just to have a personal winner in a fight.
This is my bias creeping in here. Bounce in place, slice in place, cursor tools, multiclip fades on the same channel and container clips for audio make it "miles ahead" for me personally. I agree that the warping in Bitwig isn't as good as Live and if you're workflow is reliant on this, I can understand Bitwig feeling inferior. Thanks for keeping me in check :)
Sorry, I didn’t mean to police your post. I’m aware of the Bitwig audio innovations over Live and I’m enjoying the hell out of it. For now I use Live on Clips if I feel is too much work to do it in BW.

Sometimes I just pull a sample from BW browser into the timeline and it doesn’t match the declared tempo and I’m wondering (a fraction of a beat here and there plus the Onset are off as well).

I’m getting used to the Clip Container concept.

One thing I would like to see is a function to be repeated by just holding down the key such as Ctrl+D rather then once per duplicate.

I did left Bitwig long ago but v4 was worth another look and I have no problem using it in conjunction with Live.
Ableton > :phones: < Bitwig

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KVRAF
19910 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:16 am

Liero wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:00 am
Audio editing is still a nightmare in Bitwig. I totally dislike the audio object model of having clips within clips, everything becomes a hassle. Once you've edited audio on something really fast like Reaper, this just becomes a dealbreaker. Love the Bitwig modulation tho, no other DAW does it as well.
Funny how different people like different stuff.

Back when I used Live, I used Reaper for audio editing.

Since switching to Bitwig, I no longer use Reaper at all. I love the Bitwig audio object model with audio events inside the clip. One of the best features of Bitwig IMO. And now it is especially fantastic since V4 because of the new Comping, Operators and Expression Randomization and how it all works together.

I'm having more fun with audio editing in Bitwig 4 than I ever have in any other application.

KVRian
620 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:31 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:16 am
since V4 because of the new Comping, Operators and Expression Randomization and how it all works together.
This is exactly what I’m digging ATM and why I’m importing unfinished material from Live, and just over the weekend, I’ve got stuff, I was stuck with, becoming new tracks. :phones:

Ok, this is supposed to be Why I Left topic...
But I guess why I came back is the reason I left :D
Ableton > :phones: < Bitwig

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