Hive 2 - Question on achieving unique filter envelope behavior

[SushiFugu]

This is going to be painfully niche and specific, but I'm demoing Hive 2 and have a question about getting the filters to behave a particular way. Decades ago I used to have several of the Yamaha EX-series workstations and rack units, which had an analog emulation module. One of my very favorite things about the synths was that its envelopes could be set in such a way that they did not "jump" to a new value when retriggered. That is, if you set a long decay on an envelope, and retriggered it halfway through the decay, the envelope would bump back up from the current value, not jump down to zero and start the envelope again, if that makes sense. It's something I don't see very often in any hardware or software, and I feel like with Hive's function generators and shape system I should be able to achieve that sort of behavior but can't seem to figure it out.

Hive.png

Just for clarity, what I mean is that say if you have a typical envelope modding filter cutoff, tapping a note repeatedly could slowly open up the filter similar to a classic wah-wah envelope follower triggering by amplitude, so you would not have a sharp change in filter as it would always start the attack from the current envelope value, not starting back at zero. The envelope would always treat the current position along the ADSR as the starting point, and trigger relative to that.

I've tried playing a lot with the function generator in Hive, as the different follower and gate options seem like they should allow me to do exactly what I describe -- the envelope smoothly transitioning when retriggered -- but none of the routing combinations I can come up with seem to prevent the envelope from going back to zero on each note-on. If anyone could help a newbie try to figure this one out I'd really appreciate it, I'm really falling in love with Hive and if it could do this one little trick for me that would seal the deal for me picking it up. But maybe this is just something outside its scope. Hoping it's something simple I'm just overlooking.

[lazerkind]

Have you tried setting voice mode to legato?
Check out the voice mode section in the manual for details.

[SushiFugu]

Have you tried setting voice mode to legato?
Check out the voice mode section in the manual for details.

Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, I've played around with the legato settings but this particular feature is different from legato. With legato the filter envelopes would not retrigger with additional notes, and the behavior I'm trying to emulate is the envelopes retriggering but "picking up" where the envelope left off (i.e., if retriggered halfway through the release, the attack of the envelope begins halfway to zero, not immediately at zero).

Some other users here have informed me that the more precise term for what I'm looking for is "Non-Return-To-Zero" envelopes, and some people refer to them as "Singing Envelopes." I just can't tell if this is something Hive is capable of and I'm missing it, or if it's just not something achievable here.

[SushiFugu]

It seems at least part of my confusion is with the usage of the function generator -- in the manual it states that the function generators can be used as versatile slew limiters, that is allowing you to hold or attenuate a source without retriggering it from zero, exactly what I'm hoping to achieve.

A trigger during decay will start the attack from the current value.

(User Manual Pg. 30)

But at the same time, for some reason it seems the function generators always reset from zero whenever a MIDI note is played?

[...] However, MIDI note gates will always restart the attack from zero.

So I guess I'm at a loss on how you could possibly use the function generators as a slew limiter or anything like that if hitting a note will always drop the signal down to zero regardless of the input source for the generator. For example, using the function generator to "smooth" aftertouch as suggested in the manual doesn't seem to really work since playing any notes while engaging aftertouch resets the envelope back to zero each time. The Mod Matrix also seems to have individual slew limiting functions, which potentially could also achieve what I'm trying to do, but those only have very vague fast/smooth/slow options which are impossible to adjust to usable values.

[Unaspected]

Is this the kind of thing you want?

HiveEnvRetrig.jpg

If using Mod 1 on filter, you'll want to zero out every parameter other than Release and attach a second Modulator to Sustain 1. Set Mod 2 as required and then the trick is to use the Decay of Mod 1 to adjust the retrigger point.

You can further adjust this effect using the SL settings under the Matrix in the lower section of the synth.

Not perfect/exact and wastes a modulator but might get you closer to the sound you want: No clicks/smooth motion with consecutive notes.

[SushiFugu]

Is this the kind of thing you want?

Thanks for taking the time here and understanding my scattered explanation! Yes, that's more or less exactly what I've been looking for. I see now that setting envelope attack at zero makes the reset behavior slightly different, I hadn't noticed that. Kind of wish the Function envelopes worked the same way!

My gut told me there was a way to do it but just never thought to funnel things through the envelope sustain like that. Even if it's a little work-around-ey the end result is what matters, I appreciate it!

[Unaspected]

Is this the kind of thing you want?

Thanks for taking the time here and understanding my scattered explanation! Yes, that's more or less exactly what I've been looking for. I see now that setting envelope attack at zero makes the reset behavior slightly different, I hadn't noticed that. Kind of wish the Function envelopes worked the same way!

My gut told me there was a way to do it but just never thought to funnel things through the envelope sustain like that. Even if it's a little work-around-ey the end result is what matters, I appreciate it!

You're welcome! Glad I could help.

Yeah, the attack set to zero does seem to change the envelope behaviour - though then you have to put up with no attack curve. So I figured that, if we modulate a control signal at unity then it is no different to attaching the other ADSR directly to a parameter but then we have the ADR timing controls of the slave envelope. There were still some clicks audible even after playing with the decay but the release smoothed those out.

I'm sure there are plenty of tricks that can be worked with the function modulators but I've yet to dive in deep. Love what little I've coaxed out of the synth so far.