Reason 12 announced

[jens]

It's a total desperate scam

I don't think it's a scam, not yet at least. It's however in my opinion obvious that the people pulling the strings are doing so in a very short term profit oriented manner, and that spending any significant money on their products would be unwise until they've proven they're a serious business with a long term plan and that they're not the enslaved ghost of Propellerhead animated through the greed of some investors.

I think it's simply their new CEO who is young and green and reckless...

[machine_spirit]

Actual proper summer in Sweden generally lasts for like 6 weeks (late june - early august) then it's some variation of cold and dark for the rest of the year... Reason Studios probably has one poor guy doing support though, i doubt it's a good indicator of how other software developers of a similar size or larger handle it. Then again you would struggle to find a more jaded and cynical bunch than the swedes.

I think it's simply their new CEO who is young and green and reckless...

Possible, but that's not how i remember it. Unless they changed CEO again, which is possible. I kinda stopped reading the meta stuff on reasontalk when things started getting too depressing.

[EnochLight]

People act like Propellerhead’s #1 goal wasn’t to make as much profit as humanly possible. Not sure why that is. Yeah they’re under new leadership, but it’s pretty clear that they needed a new direction to stay relevant. We’re at page 67 of this thread and almost 1000 posts, so I’d wager they’re moving in the right direction.

[SLiC]

It's a total desperate scam

I don't think it's a scam, not yet at least. It's however in my opinion obvious that the people pulling the strings are doing so in a very short term profit oriented manner, and that spending any significant money on their products would be unwise until they've proven they're a serious business with a long term plan and that they're not the enslaved ghost of Propellerhead animated through the greed of some investors.

I think it's simply their new CEO who is young and green and reckless...

Personally I (and it seems many others) had no interest in Reason whatsoever until he took over...the Rack, HD and resizable, great instruments like Algorithm...all good by me.

[killmaster]

I'm using Reason beta 12.2d8 (latest update) and I see no Combinator 2. Only the Combinator 1 device.

[EnochLight]

I'm using Reason beta 12.2d8 (latest update) and I see no Combinator 2. Only the Combinator 1 device.

Chime in to the actual beta forum you have access to and we'll help you.

[machine_spirit]

People act like Propellerhead’s #1 goal wasn’t to make as much profit as humanly possible.

I agree, profit as a motivator is perfectly fine. However Propellerhead had a long term plan, while Reason Studios strikes me as a whole lot of marketing and a complete disregard for their core userbase (and likely their new RRP userbase too if the wind blew some other way). The difference between Reason Studios and Propellerhead here is in my opinion not entirely unlike the difference between an individual that is only acting in his own immediate interest and an individual who has discipline and a vision for the future. Both are looking to profit in one way or another but the approach and end result are very different, for the individuals and for the environment.

Yeah they’re under new leadership, but it’s pretty clear that they needed a new direction to stay relevant.

This is true, though perhaps it could have been done less drastically. From what i've seen they've never even tried to damage control the backlash from the shift to "Reason is now a plugin!" and subscription etc, other than some low effort "we have not forgotten the DAW!" post (that was later followed up by the completely RRP oriented Reason 12 announcement). If they don't care about their reputation they don't care about the future of the brand and products either, if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is. Or perhaps some higher ups thought that there was a massive untapped market of people ignorant of Reason's past and willing to subscribe, the marketing certainly implies that. And perhaps there is, though i doubt it.

We’re at page 67 of this thread and almost 1000 posts, so I’d wager they’re moving in the right direction.

Even if half the posts would be related to criticism, complaints and the following replies and so on? Beyond the typical frustration you can find in threads about every DAW that is. Perhaps it isn't so bad, i honestly don't know.

Personally I (and it seems many others) had no interest in Reason whatsoever until he took over...the Rack, HD and resizable, great instruments like Algorithm...all good by me.

Fair enough. I don't have any issues with any of the things you mentioned though, it's the stuff i've mentioned above that bothers me. I bought a DAW, started buying a couple of cheap rack extensions, watched some nice youtube videos of producing in Reason by some well known Reason personalities and generally had a good time. That's how i started out, and now we're here. I can understand that you don't care about the DAW because you have multiple other ones and that Reason for you is basically the RRP, but you're not being very understanding of the people in a different position and their criticism.

I'll admit that i'm frustrated that i wasn't skeptical enough when i bought the DAW, the signs were already there. Reason as a DAW is still perfectly fine for me but i find myself drawn to the demo versions i have of Live and Bitwig instead because this entire thing has left such a bad taste and i feel like i'm putting effort into learning a workflow that might have no future.

[EnochLight]

i find myself drawn to the demo versions i have of Live and Bitwig instead because this entire thing has left such a bad taste and i feel like i'm putting effort into learning a workflow that might have no future.

To be fair, both Ableton and Bitwig have their fair share of rage posts and criticisms from users. Seems no DAW is safe from the ire of their users.

But I get what you're saying. Trust me, I was one of the users dumbfounded that we're approaching a 12.x update and there's still zero attention being paid to Reason's main sequencer. It's my main DAW and I prefer to work inside it, so that hit me hard. Still, I've yet to find another DAW that inspires me as much as Reason does, and keeps things "fun". So here I am...

[starflakeprj]

My complaints about Reason Studios have nothing to do about their products, but rather their way of doing business. I don't know how many "angry" emails I have sent their support where you just get a nonsense answer. For instance I'm one of the users that own Reason 11 Suite. Before uprading to Reason 11 Suite, I wrote an email to Reason Studios where I questioned there upgrade model, especially when I had all but four of the containing Rack Extensions, whereof only one (Scenic) or possibly two (maybe Radical Piano too) were of actual interest.

First of all I asked for an extra discount because of this, but they refused (a more blunt support than the Reason Studios' one it's hard to find). So I asked them if they could tell a little about the future regarding the Suite, if, for instance, the owners would get any Rack Extensions that ordinary license holders wouldn't get. Either with the current v11, or with an upcoming v12. But all they said was that they couldn't mention anything about this, or that they didn't know.

I still was stupid enough to upgrade to the Suite, taking the chance they would actually reward the Suite license owners in upcoming updates or upgrades. But instead they decided to bury the Suite.

I don't care if they offer a subscription, as long as they still offer the perpetual license typ, but another thing that made me a bit irritated was they when they offered current license owners a better price on Reason+ for the first year, the Suite owners didn't get an extra perk comparing to the ordinary license owners. Reason Studios are REALLY crappy when it comes to taking care of their loyal customers. New customers are always the priority, but on the other hand, many (or even most) of the other companies are doing their business exactly the same. Take Arturia for example.

What I don't get, and I have mentioned this before in this thread, is why people are complaining so much about Reasons feature set. Reason is a unique DAW with many (unique) features that no other DAW's have. And it comes with more quality instruments and effects than any other DAW. Still it feels like some people want that, and all the other features from all other DAW's, to be happy. What is even more strange is, many of the people complaining about this are non-Reason owners today, who wouldn't buy Reason anyway. Why don't you see people demanding Reason unique features in their DAW's of choice?

Just accept that Reason is Reason, Studio One is Studio One and Pro Tools is Pro Tools. I think it's great that, product wise, Reason Studios is doing their thing, without looking too much on the competition. This is what makes Reason unique. Why would anyone even want Reason to be like any other DAW? Then it would be no reason to use Reason anymore.

ZzzzZZzzZz.....

[noremorse]

What the actual f??? What in the world would grant you an extra discount?
And all they have said about the suit has ever been like: this is an offer for now we dont know if it will happen again in the future.

So yes stupid indeed, you should never buy anything in regards to software with the future in mind just what it can do right now, this very moment, and if that is something that is to any benefit for you this very moment. If you're lucky they might do something that benefit you in the upcoming updates but that is something you never can count on and base your buying decisions on...

(The obligatory this is of course MY take on it all/2c et all)

First of all I asked for an extra discount because of this, but they refused (a more blunt support than the Reason Studios' one it's hard to find). So I asked them if they could tell a little about the future regarding the Suite, if, for instance, the owners would get any Rack Extensions that ordinary license holders wouldn't get. Either with the current v11, or with an upcoming v12. But all they said was that they couldn't mention anything about this, or that they didn't know.

I still was stupid enough to upgrade to the Suite, taking the chance they would actually reward the Suite license owners in upcoming updates or upgrades. But instead they decided to bury the Suite.

[starflakeprj]

What the actual f??? What in the world would grant you an extra discount?

Well, the top reason would be to show appreciation for their loyal returning customers. This is practiced by many other developers, even some larger ones. The more you own, the more discount you get. It far from unusual. So, that's why.

[noremorse]

And thats why you pay 129 (or whatever to upgrade) not another 399 so you're already reaping the benefits of being a loyal customer.

What the actual f??? What in the world would grant you an extra discount?

Well, the top reason would be to show appreciation for their loyal returning customers. This is practiced by many other developers, even some larger ones. The more you own, the more discount you get. It far from unusual. So, that's why.

[starflakeprj]

And thats why you pay 129 (or whatever to upgrade) not another 399 so you're already reaping the benefits of being a loyal customer.

What the actual f??? What in the world would grant you an extra discount?

Well, the top reason would be to show appreciation for their loyal returning customers. This is practiced by many other developers, even some larger ones. The more you own, the more discount you get. It far from unusual. So, that's why.

So that's your vision of taking good care of you customers? Then you don't know much about customer service.

[bangaio]

Too many posts to quote but I have no issue with making profit. That’s good for many reasons. The thing is they weren’t making the revenue to drive profit or growth clearly as they sold up to PE. They had a decision - radically improve and redevelop their core product that has a loyal and fairly large userbase or change the business model.

They tried other new products but unsurprisingly they failed - vst softsynths, Alihoopa, audio interfaces, mobile apps etc. I’m the mean time reason wasn’t developed fast enough to keep up with developments. The job has got bigger and bigger as things move on. They could have iterated faster but I just don’t think they have it in them.

They went for plan b as it’s easier and requires less engineering and in the end they did a half baked and confusing job of that and then marketed it very poorly.

The developments they are good at are devices but that’s missing the core product. Which just isn’t very good these days. It could be amazing. I would love to see reason developed but it just doesn’t cut it compared to other platforms anymore.

[antic604]

To change the focus a bit, I was just bored and didn't wanted to do anything serious so I made - in Bitwig 4 - a complex Serum patch with 2 modulator LFOs driving the filter. Around 8-9% CPU. I saved the MIDI and the patch and I re-did the same in Reason+ to see 7-8% CPU. I repeated it in Live 11: 17-19% CPU.

What in actual f**k Ableton?!