How do you feel about subscription based plugins?

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

I get worse with it every day as Roland release one synth after another that I could have owned if I could buy them. But nope, only rent for lifetime, even the concept of that is enough to pass. It ain't about access only.

[Ploki]

Subscription based vendors still arent M1 native.
That’s what i would get for paying monthly maitenance - f**k all.

[fmr]

Subscription based vendors still arent M1 native.
That’s what i would get for paying monthly maitenance - f**k all.

Probably because they are a minority, and subscription based vendors have to please ALL subscribers (or at least as many as they can) ALL THE TIME, otherwise they would risk losing them. If I was running such a business, I would better risk losing a bunch of ass-kissers that ran "upgrading" their hardware, than risking to lose a lot more by not offering any added value just to please those.

Changing to M1 was YOUR choice. When you subscribed they didn't commit to such platform. What are you complaining about? Complain to Apple. They caused the incompatibilily (as always).

And if I was a vendor, I would charge for an upgrade to support M1. It's not like Apple is paying them, and the license doesn't cover those obligations. In the end, it's Windows users that are paying for those extra development hours, because they will be paying the same amount as you, and will get nothing in return, since all resources were spent creating M1 compatible versions.

For example, I am considering ending my Roland subscription (I am subscribed for more than five years now) because they are failing to offer me something I value in the last two years. Basically, I paid two years for nothing. And since I will have ten fully licensed products in the end of this year (which wil cover almost anything I want) I will not care to lose access to all the trash they are filling the platform with.

I will replace it, most probably, by an East West subsription, which will cost me the same monthly, but will offer me a lot more.

But I gladly pay for my Plugin Alliance subscription, because they keep delivering.

[Ploki]

nevermind.

Obviously, plugin alliance is best we deserve.

[germanpool]

a bunch of ass-kissers

You sound like you need professional help. Nobody I have ever met talks about people who buy different computers like that. Hehe. I bought an M1 as I needed a new machine, not to root somebodys anal canal. What a claim to make!

I wouldn't touch subs because you could be like fmr, paying for years for stuff and then end up with...nothing? Or does Roland allow you to keep them?

[Scotty]

I wouldn't touch subs because you could be like fmr, paying for years for stuff and then end up with...nothing?

Respectfully this is a mindset. If you complete music with the plugins and print the stems, which is good practice regardless, you wind up with music which is the end goal as I see it. This as opposed to owning all the tools. It really doesn't matter how someone views it as long as you can deal with the pros and cons of either option. Not all subscriptions are created equal though . Some are excellent value others not so much.

[germanpool]

I wouldn't touch subs because you could be like fmr, paying for years for stuff and then end up with...nothing?

Respectfully this is a mindset. If you complete music with the plugins and print the stems, which is good practice regardless, you wind up with music which is the end goal as I see it. This as opposed to owning all the tools. It really doesn't matter how someone views it as long as you can deal with the pros and cons of either option. Not all subscriptions are created equal though . Some are excellent value others not so much.

Music is the end goal, yes, just as design work of one sort is with Adobe CC. But with music if I want to open up old projects and the plugins are unsubscribed and have no read-only mode, sounds like a poor situation to me. Agreed that it is a mindset, I don't think I will be changing it, but I do like Spotify, Netflix and my work Adobe so I don't hate all subs.

[Ploki]

Respectfully this is a mindset. If you complete music with the plugins and print the stems, which is good practice regardless, you wind up with music which is the end goal as I see it. This as opposed to owning all the tools. It really doesn't matter how someone views it as long as you can deal with the pros and cons of either option. Not all subscriptions are created equal though . Some are excellent value others not so much.

Sure but if keep paying money i expect it to work with newest tech (such as M1).
I expect that even more than when i buy permalicenses where arguably you bought something at the time.
Yet reality is the opposite of that. Permalicense plugins got updated, subs didnt.
So what does a subscription really bring me? Unupdated/unmaintained toolset that i have to pay for over and over again, and more often than not unresponsive support that doesn’t fix my problems.

When you rent tools/gear you expect a working condition when you rent it - you pay to use something and the loaner keeps it maintained.
If i rent microphones from a company and they’re not working well and they refuse to answer their phone and fix/replace it in due time, i’m not gonna rent from them ever again.

[Scotty]

Sure but if keep paying money i expect it to work with newest tech (such as M1).
I expect that even more than when i buy permalicenses where arguably you bought something at the time.

Yet reality is the opposite of that. Permalicense plugins got updated, subs didnt.
So what does a subscription really bring me? Unupdated/unmaintained toolset that i have to pay for over and over again, and more often than not unresponsive support that doesn’t fix my problems.

When you rent tools/gear you expect a working condition when you rent it - you pay to use something and the loaner keeps it maintained.
If i rent microphones from a company and they’re not working well and they refuse to answer their phone and fix/replace it in due time, i’m not gonna rent from them ever again.

I've got no issue with your points. They seem legit to me and verifiable as well. You aren't the first person to note that subs are often slower at implementing OS changes. Without the annual refresh cycle pushing you for to pay for an update with new features (as in non subs) they don't feel the same pressure because their base is already locked in for a period of time. They will eventually feel the pressure because people like you who are fully committed to the new platform with either abandon them or reject them in the first place. I'd also suggest that the M1 is a new departure and not simply an OS update. I lived through this when Apple went from PowerPC to Intel based processors. The lag time for native support was longer that I would have liked.

Lack of good support isn't just an issue with the the subscriptions to be fair. Try getting in touch with Steinberg. Solid points and like I said you have to decide if you can live with the pros and cons of both. I do subscribe to East West and to Adobe. I'd likely subscribe to Plugin Alliance but if you wait for sale there really isn't a strong incentive to "rent" as I see the math.

Companies like Plugin Alliance and Melda offer subs and also sell conventionally. I am not sure how that plays into your concerns regarding slow updates.

[MadDogE134]

i don't have an issue with the plugins... it is the subscription i scoff at. i only have and will only pay for perpetual license software that give me the rights to use the software as long as i wish... sometimes even after the developer vanishes lol imo no one deserves to be paid for doing nothing. for instance waves lol... when i first started engineering i was naive and bought into that crap but quickly realized they want money for doing nothing lol (look at 98% of their product... not been touched in what 20 years?) and if i don't pay their ransom each year i can't even sell the bloody things off so they collect virtual dust. so do you think i would pay a monthly fee for "everything" when often times half of "everything" is not worth using? they laugh all the way to the bank. sure you can rent them for a month and do some work but what happens down the road if you wish to revisit a project? you have to reach into your pocket and pay for another month if they are even still around. i have things 7 years old i can open now and it is just as i left it and it don't cost me a cent.

don't be a cheap bastard lol... invest in yourself

cheers

[Ploki]

Companies like Plugin Alliance and Melda offer subs amd also sell conventionally. I am not sure how that plays into your concerns regarding slow updates.

good points

Plugin alliance is decidedly sub-based and really does everything to sway you into subscribing, Melda is less aggressive on that front - but it's pure speculation whether more people sub to Melda or buy outright.
I bought what Melda I have (about 12 plugs or so) fwiw

[Scotty]

i have things 7 years old i can open now and it is just as i left it and it don't cost me a cent.
edited
don't be a cheap bastard lol... invest in yourself

cheers

Your workflow is your workflow and reflects your preference; there is no wrong here. I'd only point out that you can invest in yourself by redirecting the funds for plugins into other areas that may have more value. It doesn't make you a cheap bastard by making a decision. I spent a small fortune on UA plugins. That was a mistake as I see it. If I had of invested in more sound treatments and better speakers early on I would have been further ahead. Regarding revisiting older projects, not everyone has the luxury of revisiting projects. Some people start and finish and get paid and then consider it done with perhaps a remaster in the offing down the road. If you endlessly dabble or feel you have some gems from bygone decades that should reappear then that could be a problem or it could be an opportunity. I've remixed some old projects recently. Some of us who started with tape (yes we are a dying breed) don't see everything as perpetually elastic. Some people would starve if they worked that way.

[MadDogE134]

the last line was a joke scotty and yeah i have wasted a ton over the years especially when i first started... everything looked good. but as for old projects... i tend to lose interest in things (my own work that is) and have a ton of unfinished work on a couple of hard drives so when i get bored i plunder lol i might note though some of my working friends have had clients wanting reworks (not 7 yrs back lol) and had to go back in.

i am not saying the sub thing ain't for some... some may find it useful and beneficial. it mostly benefits the company as i see it though. to each their own... i just personally feel it is throwing money away that i don't have. as i always have done... i save up and purchase what i want.

anyways... no offense intended and again the last line was said in humor

cheers

[Scotty]

i am not saying the sub thing ain't for some... some may find it useful and beneficial. it mostly benefits the company as i see it though. to each their own... i just personally feel it is throwing money away that i don't have. as i always have done... i save up and purchase what i want.

anyways... no offense intended and again the last line was said in humor

cheers

Sorry I didn’t acknowledge the humour, glossed over that.

[germanpool]

For me the main failing point of music SW subs is that they don't cover all my needs (no one company can do that) so they are expensive partial solutions. Add that to a lack of read -only mode in the DAW if you stop paying for double trouble.