KVR Audio

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:22 pm

Seems like Yamaha has been doing the Roland thing. Not releases any new cool gear and just rereleasing shitty plastic shells of formerly great products.

excuse me please · Post by **excuse me please** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:30 pm

Don't own any of them, but I think they are both great. I go for the Opsix for sound design. CinkeMusic at YT has some nice vids about it

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:34 am

kritikon wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:39 amStrangely though, for me at least the mini keys is a bonus.

I am a total convert. I used to really hate them, because the early examples were just terrible keyboards, but since things like the KeyStep, Korg's Minilogue/Monologue and even my Seaboard Block, I find full-size keys to be too much like hard work. The Minilogue/Monologue keys, in particular, are fantastic because they have a bit more length, which makes it easier with the black keys.

digitallysane · Post by **digitallysane** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:47 am

masterhiggins wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:22 pm Seems like Yamaha has been doing the Roland thing. Not releases any new cool gear and just rereleasing shitty plastic shells of formerly great products.

The Montage / MODX platform, which is more recent than the Reface, is super cool any way you look at it.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:11 pm

And if you want a unique and fresh FM hardware synth, check out Kodamo's EssenceFM synth

16 part multi-timbral
300 voices
6 operator with user created algos
etc
etc

digitallysane · Post by **digitallysane** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:53 pm

pdxindy wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:11 pm And if you want a unique and fresh FM hardware synth, check out Kodamo's EssenceFM synth

16 part multi-timbral
300 voices
6 operator with user created algos
etc
etc

The only reason I didn't mention it was the price, but it's THE most interesting FM hardware out right now, IMO.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:18 pm

digitallysane wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:53 pm
pdxindy wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:11 pm And if you want a unique and fresh FM hardware synth, check out Kodamo's EssenceFM synth

16 part multi-timbral
300 voices
6 operator with user created algos
etc
etc
The only reason I didn't mention it was the price, but it's THE most interesting FM hardware out right now, IMO.

Yeah... I agree. I want to get one as it supports MPE plus a bunch of other unique capabilities.

You could create a patch that was a drum machine with 64 voices spread across the keyboard and each voice its own unique 6 operator FM drum sound. What impressive flexibility!

sin night · Post by **sin night** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:12 pm

I didn't try the Korg Opsix so I can't make comparisons on the sound engine, but the Reface DX has the best mini keys I ever tried (those keys are good and playable... and I'm not a fan of minikeys!), I think they are in another league in comparison to the Minilogue or the Keystep.

The Korg Opsix looks easier / more user-friendly to program with that panel, though!

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:46 pm

sin night wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:12 pm I didn't try the Korg Opsix so I can't make comparisons on the sound engine, but the Reface DX has the best mini keys I ever tried (those keys are good and playable... and I'm not a fan of minikeys!), I think they are in another league in comparison to the Minilogue or the Keystep.

Good to hear. I purchased the Minilogue XD and returned it the next day cause I couldn't stand the keys.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:01 pm

One year ago I was also between Reface DX and Korg FM Volca. The FM Volca was only 3 polyphony and doesn't respond to velocity, so I omitted it from the list. Between Reface DX and MODX, I went with the MODX in the end. In that time there wasn't the Korg Opsix in the market. Probably I would go for it instead because it is half the price of MODX, smaller and less complicated interface.

Anyway, in practice, MODX has a better all in one synth/rompler. I ended using presets much more than delving into the endless pages of the FM-X and keep touching the parameters and using the data wheel (keep repeating till my back begin to shout!). That's in the beginning though! After time, the process began to be less painful.

To be honest, I found it much easier to just run FM8 or Blue ii (or any virtual fm synth)! So, IMO, hardware fm synths can't compete with the ease of use of Virtual synths! If I want to buy a hardware synth, I would buy something like Minilogue XD module or something smaller like Uno (Pro). But to be hoenst, I don't need anything hardware!

If I don't have MODX and NI KK M32, I would buy Reface DX as both small light keyboard with FM synth. I can put it beside my PC keyboard and use it also on my laps when my back hurts me! Anyway, I like the MODX as it can act as a keyboard/midi controller/rompler and a fm synth! They keep updating it as well because it has the same software of their flagship MONTAGE. Although it doesn't have great keys! Just normal cheap plastic ones!

digitallysane · Post by **digitallysane** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:15 am

EnGee wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:01 pmAnyway, in practice, MODX has a better all in one synth/rompler. I ended using presets much more than delving into the endless pages of the FM-X and keep touching the parameters and using the data wheel (keep repeating till my back begin to shout!). That's in the beginning though! After time, the process began to be less painful.

To be honest, I found it much easier to just run FM8 or Blue ii (or any virtual fm synth)! So, IMO, hardware fm synths can't compete with the ease of use of Virtual synths!

Interesting enough, my experience is the complete opposite.
I find tweaking FM with the MODX to be much faster, intuitive and inviting than FM8 or any other FM soft synth that I tried. It's pretty much the best, quickest FM interface I have experienced.

And I do enjoy the dial and the physical controls.

After some time with the MODX, something like FM8 feels very clumsy to me, fiddling with the mouse among all those tiny menus, tabs and settings.

That being said, you cand get a third party software editor for the MODX and edit it just like a VSTi, if you prefer that.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:01 am

What that editor? Tell me please and I'll purchase it. I really don't see how touching parameters and keep switching between 8 operators and their "common" page and editing every stage by that wheel is easier than just seeing all in one page (expert tab in FM8) and just clicking with mouse and dragging! Envelopes are also much easier and flexible!

Yes, it seems we are on the opposite sides

For me, FM8 is still the best in editing than any FM synth because I can see exactly what each operator volume and how it connects. It is also by more flexible than any algorithms based synth because you can freely make any algorithm you want and save it. Blue 2 by Rob Papen is also a great FM/PM/PD synth. You can choose what kind of synthesis and also it has kind of wave sequencing!

When it comes to non analogue synthesis, hardware can't compete with today's software at all

IMO of course!

digitallysane · Post by **digitallysane** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:14 am

EnGee wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:01 am What that editor? Tell me please and I'll purchase it.

http://www.jmelas.gr/montage/perf.php

EnGee wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:01 am I really don't see how touching parameters and keep switching between 8 operators and their "common" page and editing every stage by that wheel is easier than just seeing all in one page (expert tab in FM8) and just clicking with mouse and dragging! Envelopes are also much easier and flexible!

Yes, it seems we are on the opposite sides For me, FM8 is still the best in editing than any FM synth because I can see exactly what each operator volume and how it connects. It is also by more flexible than any algorithms based synth because you can freely make any algorithm you want and save it.

Well, FM8 (and any matrix based FM synth for that matter) feels unreadable to me, as opposed to algorithm based ones. So what you see as an advantage is just an unreadable mess to me. (One reason I like the Kodamo Essence as well).
Also, having every OP on a *very easily and quickly* accessible tab again makes it for a more readable and clear workflow, FOR ME. It's a much structured approach that is, in the end, much faster (again, for me). Not to mention that the OP levels are directly adjustable with the physical sliders on the MODX, so no need for a wheel, mouse dragging etc

I'm personally not a fan, at all, of having everything on a cluttered screen (an approach favored by lots of VSTis, including FM8's expert view).

My VSTi of choice is UVI Falcon, and one reason is exactly the structured GUI that splits things logically and allow one to deal with one task at once.

When it comes to non analogue synthesis, hardware can't compete with today's software at all

I find the FM-X engine better than most FM VSTis (including FM8). Don't know if it's "the best", but it's certainly very competitive.
Same goes for the AWM2 engine.
Same goes for the Kodamo Essence FM hardware FM synth...

Anyway, we are taking this way off-topic...

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:16 am

Thanks a lot for the link! I remember I have downloaded this once I bought my MODX but it wasn't complete like now! Or I was just overwhelmed by all the learning process! Anyway definitely I will buy the three ones (Performance, total librarian and Live set). Not sure I need the Wave editor though. I wished if there is a VSTi, but oh well, not a biggie! I think now I can delve better into the parameters with this editor

Yamaha should have made a VSTi editor

Yes, I agree! The FM synth in MODX sounds nicer (deeper maybe) than other FM synths, but it is a minor difference for me. Oh well, let's jump into the sea of MODX FM. I will start by copying some presets

Oh by the way, Yamaha has a free web tool to convert DX7 presets (thousands online) to MODX/MONTAGE format:
https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?optio ... cle&id=111

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:47 pm

I'm the same with VSTi FM synths. Can't say I exhaustively tested all of them, but the ones I did try were gobbledygook to me. Probably because I learnt FM on DXs (which admittedly is very Byzantine) some of the FM VSTis just didn't make any sense to me. Did not find them easy or fun to program. Whereas Reface is very DX in its programming, so it's familiar to me. Opsix is different but VERY intuitive looking, and based on the same DX idea but translated into knobs and sliders that make sense ( and then additions that are so similar to subtractive programming that everyone knows how to do it)

Actually IMO Korg excel at that. They manage to make very complicated synths much more intuitive to actually use and program. Wavestate is still ridiculously complicated, but Korg somehow made it easier than the Wavestation. I am incredibly impressed with how they implemented FM on Opsix.

I think what I really want is the Opsix, but I want it small like Reface with dinky keys and a dinky size and I'd happily pay more for it. Unfortunately I probably can't have both.

TBH I find it odd...FM should be better in VSTi form, a no-brainer, yet the most tempting FM synths (IMO) are all h/w. Should be the other way around.

Yamaha Reface DX vs Korg Opsix