The linux DAW thread

[BONES]

It looks incredible! I'll grab a screenshot tonight for you.

[lunardigs]

Nothing shows up when I search, which I'm sure is part of a global conspiracy, and there is nothing on the Prism Break site, which looks like a place for the tin-foil hat brigade to hang out.

Hah! ... You're right, there's no "window manager" called Nuroerotic by Prism Break. Although there is a conspiracy afoot and you just stumbled into it--thanks to me--because I just tricked you into searching the term "Prism Break" which now means you're on a list ... Yup, you'll be one of the first they come for.

Anyway, Plasma, by KDE! It is sooo customizable!

[audiojunkie]

I keep meaning to start doing this, but I keep forgetting or getting side-tracked. Here is some recent news relevant to Linux Audio users:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa....3.34-Released

PipeWire 0.3.34 Released With Yet More Improvements, Fixes

Written by Michael Larabel in Multimedia on 26 August 2021 at 08:06 PM EDT. 26 Comments

MULTIMEDIA -- PipeWire, for managing audio/video streams on Linux and proving itself to be a viable replacement to PulseAudio and JACK, is out with a new update.

Just three weeks after PipeWire 0.3.33, the PipeWire 0.3.34 release occurred today with bug fixes and other improvements. PipeWire 0.3.34 fixes some "critical issues" in the prior release around some devices not showing up and default devices being lost. PipeWire 0.3.34 also now handles consumer driver streams to ensure the producer v-sync to the consumer monitor for headless setups, improved stream routing, Bluetooth battery status handling improvements, the ability to configure the internal latency of ALSA devices, and a fast convolver added to implement virtual surround sinks or reverbs.

PipeWire 0.3.34 also has several device-specific additions/improvements, the PulseAudio server has support for handling of S/PDIF formats, stability improvements for the JACK support, and other fixes.

Downloads and more details on the PipeWire 0.3.34 changes via the FreeDesktop.org GitLab.

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https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...-RT-Sched-Core

PREEMPT-RT Locking Infrastructure Possibly Ready For Linux 5.15
Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Kernel on 18 August 2021 at 05:42 AM EDT. 24 Comments

LINUX KERNEL -- Six dozen patches working on the PREEMPT-RT locking infrastructure for real-time kernels is now queued up in TIP's "locking/core" branch and will presumably be sent in for the Linux 5.15 merge window coming up quickly.

These 72 patches are part of the Linux real-time (RT) work by Thomas Gleixner and others. This locking infrastructure work for real-time kernel builds is replacing mutex, ww_mutex, rw_semaphore, spinlock, and rwlock with RT-Mutex-based primitives. For non-real-time kernel builds there should be no functional changes with these locking changes.

These PREEMPT-RT locking patches were queued up on Tuesday in locking/core and represent much of the PREEMPT-RT locking infrastructure. The patches have already gone through five rounds of review and given that they have been queued up here under tip/tip.git, it looks like this work should land in Linux 5.15 that will see its merge window open up around the end of the month.

While mainlining of the Linux real-time patches has been a topic talked about for a while, it was held up due to resources/funding but over the summer we've begun to see more patches flowing so hopefully it won't be too long before that day is reached where all the RT patches have made it to mainline. The locking patches make up a large part of the remaining work but as can be seen from linux-rt-devel's patches there still is more RT work to be upstreamed.

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https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...Linux-5.14-rc7

Linux 5.14 Stable Likely Coming Next Weekend, 5.14-rc7 Released Today

Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Kernel on 22 August 2021 at 05:41 PM EDT. 15 Comments

LINUX KERNEL -- The Linux 5.14 cycle is playing out smoothly and will likely lead to the Linux 5.14 stable kernel release happening next weekend.

Linus Torvalds just released Linux 5.14-rc7 as the newest weekly test candidate. Overall, Linus is happy with where things stand at the moment, so unless any big surprises come about this will be the last release candidate. Linus wrote in the 5.14-rc7 announcement:
So things continue to look normal, and unless there is any last-minute panic this upcoming week, this is likely the last rc before a final 5.14. Much of the discussion I saw last week was about things slated for the next merge window, and nothing in here looks particularly strange or scary.

Most of the changes here are drivers (GPU and networking stand out), and the rest is pretty random stuff: arch, tracing, core networking, a couple of VM fixes..

So please give this all some final testing to make sure we're all ready for the release,

See our Linux 5.14 feature overview for all the big changes coming in this latest kernel release.

Following the Linux 5.14 debut expected now on 29 August, that will in turn open the exciting Linux 5.15 cycle for the following two weeks.

[BONES]

Anyway, Plasma, by KDE! It is sooo customizable!

Nothing I can see there that will rival Windows 10. The image below shows the current status of Start on my new machine. I am yet to install Cubase or Adobe Creative Cloud and I am installing synths as I need them, so it's 20 or so icons short of where the old machine was. But you can see how easy it is to navigate by categorising things and using medium and small tiles. No scrolling, no digging through different screens or levels/folders and it only takes up about a quarter of the main screen. Honestly, it is as close to perfect as I can imagine, way better than the Rainmeter theme I made for Win7, and I really busted a gut on that.

[glokraw]

What ancient misinformation? Does Studio One work on Linux? Do any of the plugins listed in my signature? Will my Roli Blocks have all the same functionality under Linux that they do with Windows?

The main weakness of linux as an audio production environment, as I see it, is that there are just three native commercial daw products, Bitwig, Harrison Mixbus, and Reaper. Bottom line, if you need a daw, and you don't like any of those three, there's no point considering linux.

You're about 5 years behind in your general linux data. But I would not expect you to spend valuable time keeping up to date with systems you don't need. I'm super very far behind the win/mac knowledge status quo, having never used win 10, never considered using it, never seen it, except in a few screenshots, and maybe in passing through an aisle at Best Buy, Ditto for mac products.

The 'start' example you shared may be wonderful for you, but is far from unique, and looks like a lego-world toy screen to me. Studio One and Roli xyz are fully irrelevant to me, two out of hundreds, but I'm not the center of the universe, and I'm happy that we all can customize diverse setups, and be productive.

In 2021 linux, I can have as many desktop screens, docks, panels, and shelves as I want, where I want, with icons placed where I want. But I like a clean desktop, typically 4 desktop screens on a small panel with five or six of my most-used app icons, with favorites and application menus under the mouspointer.

The available plugin wrappers, yabridge and linvst, make it trivial to use windows plugins in the few linux daws. The few plugins that don't yet work use ilok or some poorly coded control-freak registration system, while offering sounds that are bettered by plugins that work fine.

There are several free linux daws that are under continual developement, and used by hundreds of linux musicians,
along with a growing collection of free plugins and apps.
Surge, Vital, Odin2, Dexed, Ob-XD, and Yoshimi are an excellent group of free synths to start with.
Cheers

[lunardigs]

Anyway, Plasma, by KDE! It is sooo customizable!

Nothing I can see there that will rival Windows 10 ...

Well, if it's about customization of look & feel, and function thereof, I've never quite used anything as powerful as Plasma.

For instance, one such thing Plasma has is called "Activities". Say for instance I want to have a nice, rational desktop layout, with a system tray, a task manager--something that looks like default Windows 7. Sure, I can have that. Although, what if I also want a funky creative layout to satisfy my own madness? Can't I have both? ... Activities gives you this ability as a layout-hot-swap feature.

Yet still, even if you want just one layout, the degree to which you can customize things in Plasma is pleasantly surprising. Basically, everything is a "widget"; there's nothing you can't remove, rearrange, swap out, etc. This includes virtually every visible element.

Then there's something which takes this to an entire next level; community contributions. Which, are conveniently browsable from the desktop layout tools as you go.

Btw, these are not new concepts to Plasma either, they've been developing their desktop for some decades now. In fact, early on, Mac ripped off various KDE design elements for their vaunted desktop. Some of this legacy is still present in things like Safari, which was a fork of KHTML back when.

... Ripping FOSS is all the rage, btw. When you consider the continuum that is the commercial realm meets the free realm it would make sense too. Each to a certain degree is a response to the other.

[glokraw]

I have the Trinity desktop , continued from old KDE3, on a pclinuxos install, but haven't tried Plasma yet. Here are some recent and detailed videos from the apparently prolific plasma community:

27 min:

https://youtu.be/exQh0_JKBJQ

an hour-long guide:

https://youtu.be/rHIXhgfTvtM

16 min:

https://youtu.be/H5k8kUsGZWc

[Passing Bye]

Don't miss out on Linux:
Oxe FM Synth
MVerb2020
LoudMax
ChowTape
TbT Plugins

Fircomp 1 - probably the best free compressor on Linux ATM, definitely don't miss out on that one

[BONES]

You're about 5 years behind in your general linux data.

That's because my OS is irrelevant. The OS only matters once I've decided what applications I want to use. For me, that starts with 3DS Max (Windows only), Xara Designer Pro (Windows only), Synapse Orion (Windows only), Autodesk Combustion (Windows and Mac only), Adobe Creative Suite (Windows and Mac only) and Studio One (only runs reliably on Windows).

Now, you might suggest I could use Blender instead of 3DS Max and you'd be right - I could use Blender, except that I'd never get any work. You might also suggest that there is a conspiracy afoot to ensure no industry-standard software supports Linux, and I reckon you'd probably be right, but it is what it is and I have to live in the real world if I want to eat and buy plugins.

The 'start' example you shared may be wonderful for you, but is far from unique, and looks like a lego-world toy screen to me.

That's the problem Microsoft have - people refuse to see beyond the toy-like looks, and largely useless functionality of live tiles, but what they have built is functional in a way nothing else I've ever worked with comes close to. You can look at that and know, instantly, which applications I use the most and/or which mean the most to me, without having to pick through music applications mixed in with graphics software and stupid things like browsers and notepad. Those things are all separated so if I want to open Notepad, for example, I don't have to look through all my standalone synths to find it.

But if it's "far from unique", offer an alternative.

Studio One and Roli xyz are fully irrelevant to me

Yes, because you chose your OS instead of choosing the important things first. You made them irrelevant by restricting your choices.

In 2021 linux, I can have as many desktop screens, docks, panels, and shelves as I want, where I want, with icons placed where I want. But I like a clean desktop, typically 4 desktop screens on a small panel with five or six of my most-used app icons, with favorites and application menus under the mouspointer.

Linux had multiple desktops in 2000. I tried it out but it didn't really work for me because you can't see what's going on everywhere.. Of course, Windows 10 also has that but I still don't see the point. I like having everything in one place, not spread out all over the place like a mad woman's breakfast.

The few plugins that don't yet work use ilok or some poorly coded control-freak registration system, while offering sounds that are bettered by plugins that work fine.

But iLok itself is great. It takes so much hassle out of keeping on top of your licenses. I resisted it for 20 years but these days I am a total convert. So what you are talking about are things I don't have to deal with in Windows, so why would I, or anyone else, move to a different environment that creates those kinds of problems? Yes, you can make Linux work for you but the question remains, why would you bother?

I have the Trinity desktop , continued from old KDE3, on a pclinuxos install, but haven't tried Plasma yet. Here are some recent and detailed videos from the apparently prolific plasma community:

Windows 11 looks like a total nightmare to me. It will take a lot to get me to use it. And those first two videos illustrate the big problem with Linux - they are both 30 minute videos to show you how to do things that Windows and macOS do out of the box. Why would you bother?

[lunardigs]

'Windows 11 coming along' illustrates the big problem I see with Win/Mac. That is, they can change everything or anything, whenever they want, how ever they want and to hell with their users who disagree.

This is quite different from what occurs with Linux--and I speak of Linux here loosely in a greater ecosystem sense:
a) Radical change is somewhat rare and even more rare does it occur swiftly
b) When significant changes do occur, the decision making process is belabored in a different way--dare I say with greater wisdom, in favor of the users--as the commercial impetus/push is largely absent
c) The reasoning behind changes in Linux are generally not frivolous. i.e. their isn't a marketing plan driving design goals

MS and Apple are the diametric opposite here--and they clearly don't care about alienating their customers by virtue of it. Which makes sense, because the two companies have a virtual monopoly on personal computing.
Instead of asking you the user what you'd like to see in Windows 11, they're busy pushing more dystopic tech, which of course spies on you, etc. While also trying to further conquer the marketplace, by consolidation and infiltration. Just look at all the co-opting of Linux groups/distros and publications lately. Just look at those they already control by proxy, like Suse and Red Hat ... It's sad.

[glokraw]

Yes, because you chose your OS instead of choosing the important things first. You made them irrelevant by restricting your choices.

My choices are only restricted by personal preference, common sense, and my apparently obscene budgets.
The recycler down the street has a wall of i5 wintel crates for $120-$150 each, all with some version of win ten preinstalled. If the need arises, there's a Dunkin Donut shop next door, and I know they can be plied with sugar and caffeine, to get a discount.

What made me investigate linux was some article in an Amiga Format or CU Amiga magazine. I then found an article in one of the few linux magazines in the rack, about a 16 part multi-timbral additive/subtractive synthesizer with built-in multi-fx, and it was that one (great) piece of software that led me to install Caldera linux alongside a windows XP setup. I still use the most recent variant of that synth today, as it has more and better sounds, effects, and still the simple layering.

You again wrongly assume I would attempt to direct your choices in the graphic arts, simply based on an OS. Thats absurd. I guessed you were 5 years behind regarding linux, based on your replies, but you admit to being at least partly two decades behind. I'm glad you earn a living with your choices, but spreading your solutions as the best if not only ones worthy of an effort, as if you are the center of the universe, is unbecoming in a world where a good product will have dozens or hundreds of competing products, and many environs in which to use them.
I've seen several great new products just this weekend,
and wasn't even looking for any
Cheers

[glokraw]

The new Piano Colors instrument from Native Instruments
seems to have placed a ton of good sounds and capabilities in an easy-to-use interface, but it also challenged me to come up with free and affordable alternatives, so I picked out some DecentSampler sounds, The Lamp, the Yamaha Grand Palm Mutes (with a ColourCopy delay for some rythym), and the Winter Voices choir, as an ambient tonal alternative to blend with The Lamp's ethereal ePiano tone.
The setup was familiar and quick, and there are now over 240 sounds in linux DecentSamDecentSampler format, and over 600 sounds in Kontakt and/or EXS24 format. The purchase of Piano Colors, will wait for the time being. But I think NI have a winner.

Their new Nylon Guitar is also very cool, but I used the new Box Harp DecentSampler library from David Hilowitz, to come up with fun alternatives. It sounded great when dialed with a fender Bassman amp plugin, and sent off arpeggiating up and down the leyboard. It's a very versatile sound, soaks up EQ and effects, and should get tons of use, details in the video below.


https://www.decentsamples.com/product/box-harp-free/



https://youtu.be/kU72CepvP9g

DecentSamplerLampVoicesPalm-Mutes.jpg

DecentSampler cross-platform instrument/plugin is a free download at:


https://www.decentsamples.com/product/d ... er-plugin/

[BONES]

I then found an article in one of the few linux magazines in the rack

Interesting. In the late 90's/early 2000's there were 3 or 4 great monthly Linux magazines available here. I got my first few distros from the CDs that came with them - Red Hat, Caldera and eventually SUSE - which was the one I preferred and ended up buying a boxed version of. Back then, RPM based distros were a lot easier than Debian stuff, so I stuck with RPM. These days Debian seems to dominate but I've never really used it.

You again wrongly assume I would attempt to direct your choices in the graphic arts, simply based on an OS.

I hadn't assumed you were attempting to direct my choices at all, just pointing out the motivations behind yours. i.e. That the OS seems more important to you than the software running on it.

Thats absurd. I guessed you were 5 years behind regarding linux, based on your replies, but you admit to being at least partly two decades behind.

Yet still, nobody has anything to offer to show that the situation has changed. Just as it hadn't really changed in the 10 or so years between my first experience with Linux and the second. You can keep saying "it's not the same today" until the cows come home, that's not the same as saying it's a viable alternative to any other OS for the kinds of things we do with our computers, simply because the OS itself was never an issue. I always liked using Linux, tweaking it to my needs so it felt like it was mine and mine alone. I didn't give up on it because of any problems with Linux, I gave up on it because I couldn't use all, any really, of the applications I wanted to use. It's exactly the same reason I don't use macOS (although I do still look at Macs when buying a new computer).

Yes, you can make it work adequately if you are really motivated to but no-one has provided so much as a single reason why you should bother. You seem to think it's self-evident but it just isn't. Why would I give up the new host I just spent a year learning how to get the most from for one that I gave up on three years ago because I hated using it? Why would I give up the amazing Roli Blocks set-up I've got going? Why would I abandon all of my favourite instrument plugins? When it comes down to it, why would I abandon Win10's Start? It is the first time any OS has ever had something that perfectly meets my needs so even if everything else was equal, why would I abandon that for KDE Plasma or Window Maker or GNOME or Sawfish?

[glokraw]

I'm not trying to get you to use linux. But your statements that nothing has changed in linux distros in x number of years, and your implication that productivity is a futile endeavor, unless done using your system and gear choices,
is ludicrous. (If only I'd known I needed a roli xyz, I could have avoided learning about and buying all that other junk.)
I think you need to drink a lot more, or a lot less.
Whatever helps most to crank out the tunes...
(..but I do have 5 of the items in your sig, maybe there is hope for me, after all)
Cheers

[BONES]

Nothing that makes a difference has changed because, as I said, Linux itself was never the issue. Linux could be measurably better than Windows in a thousand ways but it still wouldn't matter if I couldn't use my Roli Blocks and all those things in my signature with it. Those things matter to me, which OS I use does not. And it shouldn't matter to anyone else who is more interested in making music than in tinkering with computers.

'Windows 11 coming along' illustrates the big problem I see with Win/Mac. That is, they can change everything or anything, whenever they want, how ever they want and to hell with their users who disagree.

Except that's not how they work. They collate literally billions of keystrokes from users and use that to guide development. That's why they made such a radical departure from Win 7 to Win 8 - their data showed that for some tasks, Win7's Start was used 80% less than it had been in XP. So what we're getting in Win11 is most likely what the vast majority of users want - something that looks and feels like their smartphone - whereas I run Launcher 10 on my phone so that it works like Windows 10. Linux is no different - development is user-driven and everyone has to put up with what the majority wants, or make their own window manager.

Of course, with Windows you aren't stuck with what Microsoft gives you anyway. There are several companies offering you a shell that works like Win7 and I'm sure they'll be doing one that works like Win10 when Win11 comes out, but I'd prefer not to have f**k around with that sort of shit. I'd be more likely to find a nice Rainmeter theme if push comes to shove, or resurrect mine from 2010.

This is quite different from what occurs with Linux--and I speak of Linux here loosely in a greater ecosystem sense:
a) Radical change is somewhat rare and even more rare does it occur swiftly

I see that as a big negative - too much Linux development is glacial. Look how long it took Blender to get to a point where it became a proper alternative to commercial 3D software. It always had the tools, it just couldn't compete on usability until quite recently. And I was using Window Maker in 2002, when it was on version 0.7x and now, 19 years later, it still hasn't made it to version 1.0.

b) When significant changes do occur, the decision making process is belabored in a different way--dare I say with greater wisdom, in favor of the users--as the commercial impetus/push is largely absent

Again, this is a problem. If Microsoft don't do what's best for their users, they go out of business. Keeping users happy is life or death to them.

c) The reasoning behind changes in Linux are generally not frivolous. i.e. their isn't a marketing plan driving design goals

Again, marketing plans aren't "frivolous", thousands of people's livelyhoods depends on them getting it all just right.

MS and Apple are the diametric opposite here--and they clearly don't care about alienating their customers by virtue of it.

That is absolute rubbish. Ms and Apple could not be more different. Backwards-compatibility is fundamental to Windows and anathema to Apple. Look what happened to Windows when they screwed around with drivers for Vista - it was an absolute disaster. OTOH, every time Apple screws its users over, the users thank them for it and defend Apple's actions to the hilt.

Instead of asking you the user what you'd like to see in Windows 11

As a Windows Insider, I get asked for feedback all the time. But I am just one voice in more than a million Insiders so they don't do anything just because I want it. Why would they? They do what the herd wants. Linux is no different, it's just a smaller, nerdier herd.

they're busy pushing more dystopic tech, which of course spies on you, etc.

That's an excellent point - they collect billions of keystrokes, they know how we use our computers, they are focused on our needs. There are no special interest groups having more say, it's clinical and it caters to what we actually do, not what we think we might want. It's a really good thing.

While also trying to further conquer the marketplace, by consolidation and infiltration. Just look at all the co-opting of Linux groups/distros and publications lately. Just look at those they already control by proxy, like Suse and Red Hat ... It's sad.

Why is it sad? Why would anyone who doesn't get around with a tin-foil skull-cap on care?