Reason 12 announced

[jens]

no, reason is more of a instrument / sampler / synth / drum machine rather than a DAW

No, it isn't. You obviously are even more clueless than we thought.

possibly I am, last reaosn version I used was like version 5 many years ago

What you claimed is certainly true for V5 - but things have changed radically in the meantime.
V5 would have been absolutely useless for someone like me, and V11 is my main DAW.

[bangaio]

When v1 came out a daw mean protools. Maybe the new and growing Cubans vst but that was still thought of as a sequencer. Most studios still used racks of midi kit, akais, emus, Roland synths etc. An audio workstation meant hard disk recorders for most people or a workstation meant a trinity or the like.

Reason for me was and always was all of the midi kit I couldn’t afford in one place controlled by a slick and well integrated sequencer. It replicated in software the kind of kit countless classic albums from that era had been produced on. Im thinking the product, goldie, underworld, orbital etc. None of these used any sort of audio recording or tracks back then.

In fact it still pains me to see people lining up drum hits on an audio track of whatever they use. Yuk!

Anyway the DAW dad came along later really and the original reason concept has struggled to catch up or fit in and as such has never really hit its niche since the early days.

[Tronam]

looks like Reason rack is what I need, so I can use cubase a daw.
( not because Cubase a good daw but because I'm used to cubase, been working it it for more than 15 years )

Reason’s semi-modular rack has always been its most notable feature and in recent years this appears to be the primary focus moving forward along with new instruments and devices. I do like the self-contained environment for sound design and always found the sequencer plenty serviceable for music making, but I can fully understand why users would opt for running the rack in another DAW these days. Reason’s sequencer feels like it’s been in maintenance mode for years now. I’m sure it will always remain for the sake of backward compatibility, but I’d be surprised to see much future innovation in either the SSL mixer or sequencer. I’d love to be wrong though.

[jens]

Thing is: you don't get much of what is great about Reason's Rack if you use it as a plugin in another DAW; the plugin is simply an entirely different thing to the DAW altogether. (It's actually quite similar to Cherry Audio Voltage Modular etc.)

[Eclectrophonic]

What gets me is, they said at the beginning of the Reason 11 cycle (in response to not many feature's being added (7 in total and apart from curved automation and audio crossfades all were basic implementations that should have been in the daw 4 or 5 versions ago) is they said, there will be point updates (meaning feature's will be added) so be patient. Only 1 feature in the 11 cycle was added in 3 point updates. During that time, Friktion and Algoritm were released. I don't want to sound greedy or ungrateful but if you're going to put all those man hours into creating 2 top quality synths and not put any feature's into the actual daw, shouldn't they have been free (or certainly half price or less) for all 11 users? Will admit, does sound greedy but they should have added at least 4 or 5 workflow enhancements in the 3 point updates. We still can't join midi notes or select all clips on a track, nor can we slice by song position pointer and we don't have note displays. Really basic ease of life implementations.

[Eclectrophonic]

Now that's an easy one...

+ encourage the RE devs to come back by paying them fairly, placing their stuff front & center, listen to their requests about the API, allow for resale of REs (via native store, with RS+devs taking the cut)

Yes and change the trial of Re's. Make it a week instead of a month and allow 4 of those or something.

[WatchTheGuitar]

I’m in the Roland Cloud thread too and I’m wondering how long before people in these threads start demanding the Snyder Cut

[Danilo Villanova]

If you’re going to use Reason as a DAW, you need to be happy with the way it is right now and forget about improvements. They said they would come in point updates. They lied. And now they’re releasing R12 which I bet will have ZERO sequencer improvements.

[EnochLight]

What gets me is, they said at the beginning of the Reason 11 cycle (in response to not many feature's being added (7 in total and apart from curved automation and audio crossfades all were basic implementations that should have been in the daw 4 or 5 versions ago) is they said, there will be point updates (meaning feature's will be added) so be patient. Only 1 feature in the 11 cycle was added in 3 point updates. During that time, Friktion and Algoritm were released. I don't want to sound greedy or ungrateful but if you're going to put all those man hours into creating 2 top quality synths and not put any feature's into the actual daw, shouldn't they have been free (or certainly half price or less) for all 11 users? Will admit, does sound greedy but they should have added at least 4 or 5 workflow enhancements in the 3 point updates. We still can't join midi notes or select all clips on a track, nor can we slice by song position pointer and we don't have note displays. Really basic ease of life implementations.

Counterpoint: I’m not sure how anyone could consider a company like this “greedy”, when they certainly have to choose a careful balance between actually creating products they can sell for revenue (to keep the company profitable and thus SURVIVE) and giving away free stuff that generates little to no additional revenue?

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.

[apoclypse]

What gets me is, they said at the beginning of the Reason 11 cycle (in response to not many feature's being added (7 in total and apart from curved automation and audio crossfades all were basic implementations that should have been in the daw 4 or 5 versions ago) is they said, there will be point updates (meaning feature's will be added) so be patient. Only 1 feature in the 11 cycle was added in 3 point updates. During that time, Friktion and Algoritm were released. I don't want to sound greedy or ungrateful but if you're going to put all those man hours into creating 2 top quality synths and not put any feature's into the actual daw, shouldn't they have been free (or certainly half price or less) for all 11 users? Will admit, does sound greedy but they should have added at least 4 or 5 workflow enhancements in the 3 point updates. We still can't join midi notes or select all clips on a track, nor can we slice by song position pointer and we don't have note displays. Really basic ease of life implementations.

Counterpoint: I’m not sure how anyone could consider a company like this “greedy”, when they certainly have to choose a careful balance between actually creating products they can sell for revenue (to keep the company profitable and thus SURVIVE) and giving away free stuff that generates little to no additional revenue?

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.

100% agree. While I think this is a problem of their own making by not focusing on core functionality and being late to the party in bringing their tool into this decade, you can't blame them for trying to figure out how to monetize what they do have. It's just business and unless people want ReasonStudios to go out of business they need to do whatever they can to survive.

[noremorse]

Thing is, all the people making the noise are probably like 20 percent or less of the paying customers (Pareto principle anyone?) Like a quite small vocal group see all the problems and write about it all over the Internet. I see more or less the same 10 names doing all the writing....

Go figures

[SLiC]

Yup- same with every DAW thread...

I don't think that 'core functionality' will 'catch the eye' of new users, those few tweaks are not the things that were stopping people switch to RS in there droves.

I think those sort of subtle or under the hood and QOL refinements tend to come in point updates, although in my mind adding HD an Zoom is about as 'core function' as it gets (as is VST3 which we know is also coming soon).

[jens]

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.

nah - I paid enough for the upgrade from 10 to 11 to feel suitably entitled to get more for what I paid than they ended up giving me (I certainly don't need free synths though). If I compare that to what any upgrade for Studio One gets me, the amount of stuff V11 brought to the table is a joke... and the Presonus staff needs to eat too, no?

[EnochLight]

Trust me - as a Reason DAW user I absolutely feel more enhancements to the core DAW should have occurred over 11’s life, but I never thought of them as greedy. It’s business 101. They need to make things that generate revenue if we’re going to keep seeing Reason 12, 13, 14, etc. This also explains building Reason+ and Companion, I suppose.

nah - I paid enough for the upgrade from 10 to 11 to feel suitably entitled to get more for what I paid than they ended up giving me (I certainly don't need free synths though). If I compare that to what any upgrade for Studio One gets me, the amount of stuff V11 brought to the table is a joke... and the Presonus staff needs to eat too, no?

The question bares being asked: why did you buy an upgrade of Reason thinking you would be given more than what the upgrade offered you at the time? Comparing different software companies is a horribly misguided approach (as you yourself discovered).

Thing is, all the people making the noise are probably like 20 percent or less of the paying customers (Pareto principle anyone?) Like a quite small vocal group see all the problems and write about it all over the Internet. I see more or less the same 10 names doing all the writing....

Go figures

You’re not wrong. And it’s generally the same handful of very loud vocal forum posters out of… literally - TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LICENSES SOLD.

[machine_spirit]

Thing is, all the people making the noise are probably like 20 percent or less of the paying customers (Pareto principle anyone?) Like a quite small vocal group see all the problems and write about it all over the Internet. I see more or less the same 10 names doing all the writing....

Go figures

What kind of delusion is this? Feel free to respond to or produce some actual arguments instead of posting some blatantly false nonsense mixed with smileys. Take this social media influencer rhetoric elsewhere.

If anything there's a large amount of varied criticism from many different posters while EnochLight and SliC basically make up 90% of the defense. And SLiC seems to be some kind of "Let's get excited about products!" bot that never respond to anything. EnochLight's defense is clearly half-hearted and his "they're a corporation and if you want Reason to live on - deal with it" argument is not convincing though it is coherent. Trying to shoot down criticism with this argument is dishonest at best and doesn't do the discourse in general any favors. Not entirely unlike pulling the "everything is subjective" card to paralyze a discussion.

Pretty much every single other DAW and its developer manages to sustain themselves while maintaining a healthy relationship with their customers but for some reason this was impossible for RS and for some reason this is supposed to be acceptable.

Oh wait, Reason isn't a DAW anymore. Sorry, i forgot.