surge vs paid for synths

[baconpaul]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Imho surge's default filters have always been it's weakest point ,also the reason why I never purchased it back in 2008 .
The surge team did a wonderfull job implementing non-linear filters .
People should be aware off the o.g. vember audio's and the surge team , the latter is miles above the o.g.

While I appreciate the complement of our work, I’m not entirely sure that’s fair to the original surge devs. Between 2005 and 2020 there was quite a difference in both cpu performance and dsp literature. Pretty hard to imagine a developer in 2008 using a cpu from 2019 to implement a paper from 2015

And also, the choice to open source rather than abandon surge was a real gift to all of us.

But again I appreciate your kind words about our recent work!

[baconpaul]

Oh and interestingly even though the filter kernels were indeed pretty flat, the fundamental architecture of voice to parallelized filters and simd acceleration from original surge was super duper clever and we have kept it unchanged to this day. Some very very smart choices in surge 1.0 which are still important now. If this is interesting to any of you were always happy to chat about it in our discord.

[.jon]

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Very much yes. I think the modest CPU fits well for a workhorse synth.

[gentleclockdivider]

It's either in for all or out for all. If it doesn't work well/sounds like crap with half of Surge filters (which are basic biquads which can sustain the max 512 Hz Surge's LFOs can provide, but I am not sure they wouldn't blow up with higher modulation rates!), it's a non-starter for me personally. No half-assing!

Also, you guys do want to keep Surge low CPU, riiiiiight?

Imho surge's default filters have always been it's weakest point ,also the reason why I never purchased it back in 2008 .
The surge team did a wonderfull job implementing non-linear filters .
People should be aware off the o.g. vember audio's and the surge team , the latter is miles above the o.g.

While I appreciate the complement of our work, I’m not entirely sure that’s fair to the original surge devs. Between 2005 and 2020 there was quite a difference in both cpu performance and dsp literature. Pretty hard to imagine a developer in 2008 using a cpu from 2019 to implement a paper from 2015

And also, the choice to open source rather than abandon surge was a real gift to all of us.

But again I appreciate your kind words about our recent work!

yes , you're correct but during the same era there were synth with superior filters .
Also , the first zdf filters implementation + paper was around 2008 , prototyped in reaktor by Vadim Zavalishin
You can still check it out in the user library ( ensembles done by stephan Schmidt )

[baconpaul]

Yeah. Vadims book was very helpful in implementing the filters we have for sure!

Anyway my point was not to say surges old filters were inspiring but rather that there are many choices in surge which have helped it live and grow which I’m thankful for when expanding the synth!

[.jon]

Filters don't really matter with every sound. I use Zebralette in almost every project, and it doesn't even have a filter.

I agree that zdf designs can have a passing resemblance to the sound of real filters if buried deep in a heavily processed mix, but they are still only DSP running on general purpose processors. Plugins are not used for their sound, but because they are cheap (or even free!), versatile and practical and can do stuff circuits can't. Filters don't make or break a plugin synth (outside KVR ), they are just one component.

[chk071]

I agree that zdf designs can have a passing resemblance to the sound of real filters if buried deep in a heavily processed mix, but they are still only DSP running on general purpose processors. Plugins are not used for their sound, but because they are cheap (or even free!), versatile and practical and can do stuff circuits can't.

True. If (analog) hardware was as practical, cheap and versatile, I'd not even look at plugins anymore.

But, that's just a theoretical thought, of course, because, that will never happen.

[.jon]

True. If (analog) hardware was as practical, cheap and versatile, I'd not even look at plugins anymore.

But, that's just a theoretical thought, of course, because, that will never happen.

With the current abundance of analog synths in every possible price range, working a hybrid setup is a bit of a no-brainer imho. I mean some softsynths cost more than some hardware.

Get a totally unpractical, expensive and limited monosynth, pair it with a massively practical, versatile and free Surge and enjoy best of both worlds, live happily ever after.

[chk071]

I would always think how much more comfortable, and space-, cable- and what not -less software is.

Anyway, never say never. The problem is though that the analog synth I would want is pretty expensive.

[kobal]

Lot of analog synth sound not great .. The only great thing about many newer analog since few years is no aliasing , many don t sound very alive , i will pick plugins with analog tube transformer saturation other most newer cheap analog ( except modular ) for workflow and even sound , even using a 10 years old eq plugin as filter with good analog tube harmonics and dynamics sound better and more analog than 90% of the filter plugins out there for filter sweep, yes the most digital sounding filter can sound more analog than diva for exemple juste with some real tube ( not talking modulation but just resonant sweep ) tube/ transformer bring non linearity , limiting , compression , cliping , harmonics , sculting nice punchy but musical transients , all this that analog emulation can t nail to the point of making it sound really convincing , even plugins like sdrr or decapitator fall short in term of all these dynamics things happening with some hardware.

[Biome_Digital]

Personally the filters are a massive deal for me. For my free surge presets I found the OBX filter the best.

[Biome_Digital]

you can download them here free - https://newloops.com/pages/free-surge-presets

[bmanic]

Filters don't really matter with every sound. I use Zebralette in almost every project, and it doesn't even have a filter.

I agree that zdf designs can have a passing resemblance to the sound of real filters if buried deep in a heavily processed mix, but they are still only DSP running on general purpose processors. Plugins are not used for their sound, but because they are cheap (or even free!), versatile and practical and can do stuff circuits can't. Filters don't make or break a plugin synth (outside KVR ), they are just one component.

While I'm definitely a sucker for awesome filters, I have to admit: .jon's words above are indeed wise.

I absolutely adore the Kurzweil K series of synthesizers (hardware, for those that don't know) and their filters are, politely put, mediocre. Yet the synthesis available is awesome and the general overall "tone" coming out of these boxes is fantastic!

@OP: Surge is an exceptionally good candidate for your "first" deeper synth to explore. Definitely the best one, in my opinion, in the freeware domain (together with Vital it makes a kickass combo for learning).

[bmanic]

The problem is though that the analog synth I would want is pretty expensive.

Isn't this an universal issue?

Moog One 16... someday, someday..