Reason 12 is here

[Arashi]

Also, they’re obviously not getting rid of the standalone app, ever. I don’t know why people keep floating that nonsense idea.

What makes you think that? All the things added to Reason since v9 (that don't also help Rack Plugin) can be counted on one hand and would be a single point update in most other DAWs. Clip cross-fades, curved automation, zoom dependant grid, mutli-clip editing, ability to adjust multiple faders at once. I think that's it? This hardly encourages a view they plan to substantially invest in the DAW, if they haven't for the last 5 years...

Development of the sequencer has always been slow. The power of the rack and what makes it unique is that you can connect anything to anything. The interconnected virtual studio concept is why they built Reason in the first place. It's their single most compelling competitive advantage. There is no conceivable reality where they will throw all that out and just be a plugin.

[THE INTRANCER]

Actions speak louder than words. And so far with 12/+ the DAW features are either incomplete (transition to HD) or sacrificed for the Rack Plugin's benefit (removal of insert knobs+buttons in the Mixer, much wider rack columns, extra empty vertical space in mix channels, weird "combi in combi" for inserts). That clearly shows their priorities.

We're not discussing priorities, though - we're discussing the fact that the standalone DAW has not been abandoned, and proof being more standalone DAW features are actively in development. But if you'd like to move the goal posts of the subject, go for it!

VST Implementation was on the map back in 2010 but it took how long for that to be implemented ?

As for VST3, I honestly don't understand why it's taken so long. There is no sensible logic in Reason's development.

[Arashi]

i think people may have had more faith, had you not stated "a plan, not a promise".
that end bit, makes it sounds like its not that certain yet.

Nothing is certain in software development. It's impossible to predict what challenges you'll run into along the way and how they might impact the schedule. Everything that's "under development" is going to happen; it just might be delayed by unforeseen problems. The "under investigation" area is the stuff they haven't committed to.

[THE INTRANCER]

............

[Arashi]

VST Implementation was on the map back in 2010 but it took how long for that to be implemented ?

The clue here is how long it took other developers to implement VST3. Ableton Live just got VST3 support in 2019; it was slated for Live 10 but wasn't ready until the 10.1 release, and there were still numerous problems (mostly crashing) that had to be worked out over the next year or so. Maschine and Komplete Kontrol are still in the first baby steps of making it work (it only supports a few specific first-party plugins so far). Lots of plugins still don't support VST3. Developers pretty much universally say VST3 is very complicated and difficult to work with compared to VST2.

[antic604]

Development of the sequencer has always been slow. The power of the rack and what makes it unique is that you can connect anything to anything. The interconnected virtual studio concept is why they built Reason in the first place. It's their single most compelling competitive advantage. There is no conceivable reality where they will throw all that out and just be a plugin.

So you're saying it's powerful enough already and doesn't need to be developed further? Or that it has to take 2+ years for them to add a keyboard shortcuts to change MIDI note's length or grid size?

Because I don't see any other reason why you'd need to be explaining to me what's so special about Reason as a DAW...

[EnochLight]

VST Implementation was on the map back in 2010 but it took how long for that to be implemented ?

Context is important, Scotty - remember that in 2010 it was an early form of VST implementation that was designed by at least one of the gents at Sonic Charge - for Record at the time (not Reason itself), but Propellerhead decided to create RE's along with the RE SDK ecosystem instead (a move that - frankly - was a better choice IMHO). The version of VST support we finally got in Reason 9.5 almost 7 years later was very different than what was originally created (though allegedly it still shares some core stuff).

[Arashi]

So you're saying it's powerful enough already and doesn't need to be developed further? Or that it has to take 2+ years for them to add a keyboard shortcuts to change MIDI note's length or grid size?

I said they aren't planning to drop the standalone DAW and turn it into a plugin-only product. That was the topic of the conversation.

[antic604]

So you're saying it's powerful enough already and doesn't need to be developed further? Or that it has to take 2+ years for them to add a keyboard shortcuts to change MIDI note's length or grid size?

I said they aren't planning to drop the standalone DAW and turn it into a plugin-only product. That was the topic of the conversation.

Considering how fast they pivot their strategy recently, I'll wait & see.

[jens]

Neither December nor January is "a month or two" (in fact January is 2-4 times as much as "a month or two") - besides I don't think any of us here can in any way estimate which feature takes them how long to code. Even if some of us had a) the required coding competence and b) deep insight into their code, we still would not know how many coders are exactly working for how many hours a week on which feature. So I think you can't even make an informed guess here, just a... guess, you know?!

It's far more than an informed guess - software development is planned out much farther than 4-5 months in advance of release - it's not like these guys are new at their job. Everything you see listed as "in development" were planned and on the road map a long time ago.

Nope, in this very case it is an uniformed and false guess by the look of it - what you claim here directly contradicts what Reasonstudio's own CEO publicly states:

Things that are under investigation are things we are looking closely at. No decision has been made as to exactly what we’ll release and when.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/road ... 350a180514


Reasonstudio aside, I have been closely following the development of various products such as DAWs and plugins over the years, several times partaking in what was basically alpha testing, and your claim also contradicts the experiences I made. I go the impression that development is a mixture of a long- and medium-term roadmap and rather spontaneous changes, which are often minor things that get added or changed while fixing bugs, but it can also be additional features that are not particularly difficult or time-intensive to add/implement. And again: which things take what amount of time none of us here has any idea about. You don't know it and I don't know it and nobody else outside Reasonstudios knows it.

[jens]

Neither December nor January is "a month or two" (in fact January is 2-4 times as much as "a month or two") - besides I don't think any of us here can in any way estimate which feature takes them how long to code. Even if some of us had a) the required coding competence and b) deep insight into their code, we still would not know how many coders are exactly working for how many hours a week on which feature. So I think you can't even make an informed guess here, just a... guess, you know?!

It's far more than an informed guess - software development is planned out much farther than 4-5 months in advance of release - it's not like these guys are new at their job. Everything you see listed as "in development" were planned and on the road map a long time ago.

Bingo.

You think?

Here's something to learn for you then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iterative ... evelopment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_ ... evelopment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_sof ... evelopment


Only the ancient waterfall-method stricly follows a long-ahead planned roadmap.

If EnochLight has 20 years of experience as a software engineer this should be really basic stuff for him one would think.

[SLiC]

I can see this thread getting locked like the last one with the same people posting the same petty off topic argumentative posts.

I know it’s a long shot, but can we maybe talk about producing music with Reason?

[jens]

I don't see how quoting RS' CEO (which I did two post above yours) speaking about Reason 12's development cycle is off topic...

[EnGee]

I believe in the overall reaction in forums and YouTube is what decide what plans to create and what plans to cancel or postpone! It doesn't require a rocket science!

Many on YouTube didn't like the half-baked GUI update. So, I believe it was smart from the heads to think fast and decide to publish a general road map. I was selling it before he the announcement, but decided to keep it once I read it's a matter of months and everything hopefully will be alright

The one thing I hope they think seriously about is how to arrange main parts horizontally not vertically! It would be great if the shortcuts for the mixer and the rack can slide it on and off the screen horizontally rather than vertically, or at least give us the choice. Or better is to put smart layout of the three elements together like a sequencer and only the lower part of the mixer and the rack for just one row. As it's now, I fell the main parts messy that I keep all the times showing and hiding the mixer/rack parts!

[Arashi]

Here's something to learn for you then:

I'm well aware of the various development methodologies. What I've actually learned here is it's not worth talking to you, so I'm just going to ignore you now.