Roli: Equator 2 is here !

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRAF
5300 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:49 pm

Ou_Tis wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:14 pm
Examigan wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:48 pm
Ou_Tis wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:54 pm
Amberience wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:09 am
I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.
Apparently all of Roli's employees are being kept on and transferred to the new Lumi-focused beginner-oriented company.
I don't think Angus will be going there.
He left FXpansion to become CTO for Image-Line (FL Studio).

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/angusfx
That‘s bad news for the further development of Cypher and Strobe…

KVRian
878 posts since 29 May, 2011 from Germany

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:49 pm
Ou_Tis wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:14 pm
Examigan wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:48 pm
Ou_Tis wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:54 pm
Amberience wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:09 am
I'm highly dubious about ROLI's future. I don't think that ROLI can afford to keep making blocks or Seaboard. They still owe a ton of cash to their creditors and suppliers. They burned through money chasing a x10 valuation pipedream; it was never going to happen. You actually need to have customers for that to happen.
Apparently all of Roli's employees are being kept on and transferred to the new Lumi-focused beginner-oriented company.
I don't think Angus will be going there.
He left FXpansion to become CTO for Image-Line (FL Studio).

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/angusfx
That‘s bad news for the further development of Cypher and Strobe…
At least they claim here:
https://roli.com/stories/roli-reforms-a ... ed-to-know

... that "FXpansion synths Cypher2 and Strobe2 will also continue to be supported" (whatever that means and however credible that claim is - I reckon the best one can expect is the availability of downloads, the authorization server and, if lucky, an occasional patch to make them work on a new OS)...

... while there is not a word about Geist 2. So the question is probably not whether there is going to be further development but rather whether they´ll soon cut off its online authorization without providing an offline build first.

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KVRAF
20066 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:42 am

epiphaneia wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:30 am
... that "FXpansion synths Cypher2 and Strobe2 will also continue to be supported" (whatever that means and however credible that claim is - I reckon the best one can expect is the availability of downloads, the authorization server and, if lucky, an occasional patch to make them work on a new OS)...

... while there is not a word about Geist 2. So the question is probably not whether there is going to be further development but rather whether they´ll soon cut off its online authorization without providing an offline build first.
Yeah, that seems a reasonable expectation for Cypher and Strobe. But the whole company could also easily go belly up.

IMO, unless there is a new attitude and approach, the 'new' company will end up failing too.

KVRAF
2624 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:36 am

The problem isn't that folks don't want to buy Seaboards. They are selling. But apparently the pro market for them is just too small for their ambitious business model for selling high-end hardware. So the debts are piling up, and it's time to cut losses.

For example, you would make much more money selling a billion iPhones, or Lumi's, than a few thousand(s), or whatever, of Seaboards. It's a problem of economy of scale.
Windows10; plugins from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample, Arturia, Cakewalk, Cherry, DiscoDSP, Fathom, IKM, Initial, iZotope, KV331, NI, PluginGuru, PreSonus, Surge, TAL, Tone2, Toontrack, Tracktion, u-he, UJAM, UVI, Vital, Waves, XLN ...

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KVRAF
5809 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:53 am

After reading that:
https://github.com/ArnoldBalm/ROLI
I no longer think that all the reasonable arguments people are exchanging here have anything to do with the fail.
It's a massive amount of miss-management, toxic culture and simple fraud.
I just hope that the good people working there find better pastures.
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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KVRAF
2259 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:58 am

Ok, I'm not really sure what that Github thing is supposed to be? It's someones comments on a team event 3 years ago? But I strongly suspect that it's not what was actually said so it's just as valid as other things we've heard and read? I'm just not sure why it's being credence having been in an organisation that also ran big ra ra events - I could have commented similarly.

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KVRAF
4563 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:01 pm

Here's my take, which I am probably wrong about: Seems that Roli's business plan we centred on Seaboards and associated software. Secondary were Blocks and other products of that nature. Seems like the company didn't change its strategy soon enough and likely incurred excessive debt based on a strategy that ultimately failed. It would make sense to start up a new corporation especially with an investor involved. There appeared to be an opportunity to essentially transition Roli's assets, probably at fire-sale prices, to the new corporation. Then, carry on with a new strategy while supporting the products that have less of a market but with a focus on what they consider their new market. Yey! As long as they learned and adjusted their approach, it seems like a good plan. It also seems like they are pretty much supporting their current customers which is great.

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KVRist
110 posts since 4 Jan, 2007

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:49 pm

While we have to wait and see how things develop around Roli, some nice things still surface.
A soundset made by Luftrum for Roli's Equator 2: Ambient Darklight
I think it's a great soundset.

https://youtu.be/yQByRx2J1HQ

KVRian
859 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:58 pm

Cepheus wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:49 pm
While we have to wait and see how things develop around Roli, some nice things still surface.
A soundset made by Luftrum for Roli's Equator 2: Ambient Darklight
I think it's a great soundset.

https://youtu.be/yQByRx2J1HQ
What's that other controller (in addition to the Rise and Lumi)? Not something from Roli is it?

Equator2 iirc needs to check back with the server periodically to continue working... guess if Roli ceases to exist and they don't sell it they'll put out one final update to disable that.

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KVRAF
32785 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:22 pm

Ou_Tis wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:58 pm
Cepheus wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:49 pm
While we have to wait and see how things develop around Roli, some nice things still surface.
A soundset made by Luftrum for Roli's Equator 2: Ambient Darklight
I think it's a great soundset.

https://youtu.be/yQByRx2J1HQ
What's that other controller (in addition to the Rise and Lumi)? Not something from Roli is it?
Teenage Engineering OP-1 (a synth in its own right, not primarily a controller)

https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1

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GRRRRRRR!
12492 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:01 pm

I love watching the Lumi's keys light up and jump up/down when he changes octaves. There is definitely some nice cinematic stuff in those sounds but Equator is already well stocked in that regard.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRian
859 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:24 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:01 pm
I love watching the Lumi's keys light up and jump up/down when he changes octaves. There is definitely some nice cinematic stuff in those sounds but Equator is already well stocked in that regard.
No Slide on Lumi though (so far at least)... if all their presets in the future will be Lumi-focused they may either abandon Slide for presets or put minimal effort into optimizing it. If Lumi had Slide I might have bought it already, though from the complaints about the difference in response between black and white keys and the feel that might have been a mistake---and Lumiwhateverthey'recallednow has a lot of design revision to do before I'll seriously consider buying (especially given the risk)....

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GRRRRRRR!
12492 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:48 pm

I've read that the black/white key response issue is noticeable in the Kickstarter batch but is mostly not a problem with subsequent batches, which are also a lot more rigid. For half the price of a Seaboard Block I can live without Slide. What I was actually after was one of each so I could have the best of both worlds in a tiny, 4 octave keyboard.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRian
859 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:48 pm
I've read that the black/white key response issue is noticeable in the Kickstarter batch but is mostly not a problem with subsequent batches, which are also a lot more rigid. For half the price of a Seaboard Block I can live without Slide. What I was actually after was one of each so I could have the best of both worlds in a tiny, 4 octave keyboard.
Interesting. Might consider a Black Friday sale if they have one. Non-sale prices are $299 for Lumi vs $349 for Seaboard Block though perhaps you're referring to their sale prices.

KVRAF
9293 posts since 12 May, 2008

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:13 am

I highly recommend trying a lumi keyboard before buying. Mine was not kickstarter, just ordered when they became available. The black keys were very stiff, overall feel was bad. And this was the newer ones with the key x axis pitch modulation.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

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