Plogue OPS7 (bit-accurate DX7 emulation!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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fmr
KVRAF
10536 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:23 pm

foosnark wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:21 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:06 pm
this old sofware already presented a better GUI than what it's in here, IMO
No. Just no.
I worked with it. I think I know...

But I agree this is a matter of taste. And I don't say I would like to see something like this NOW. This was good in the eighties. Nowadays it would be archaic and ridiculous.
Last edited by fmr on Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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KVRAF
4613 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:24 pm

fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:19 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:17 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:49 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:07 pm
Why isn't the operator level available as a mod destination ( when richt clicking it ) ?
Is that a DX7 feature? :roll:

So, on one hand, you agree with an absurd and archaich GUI, but OTOH ask for modern approaches. It seems you have to make up your mind. Either you want realism or modernity. :hihi:
No it's not ..but have you discovered the advanced tab yet ?
No "mate". I was waiting for you to show it to me :hihi:
Why are you in this thread anyway , it's borderline trolling
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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fmr
KVRAF
10536 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:27 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:24 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:19 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:17 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:49 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:07 pm
Why isn't the operator level available as a mod destination ( when richt clicking it ) ?
Is that a DX7 feature? :roll:

So, on one hand, you agree with an absurd and archaich GUI, but OTOH ask for modern approaches. It seems you have to make up your mind. Either you want realism or modernity. :hihi:
No it's not ..but have you discovered the advanced tab yet ?
No "mate". I was waiting for you to show it to me :hihi:
Why are you in this thread anyway , it's borderline trolling
I am here because I want to, and also bought the software. Why? Are you willing to shut me?

Speaking of "trolling" - did you already delete that miserable insinuation you wrote about Arturia?
Fernando (FMR)

KVRist
94 posts since 8 Jun, 2009

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:07 pm

fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:27 pm
I am here because I want to, and also bought the software. Why? Are you willing to shut me?

Speaking of "trolling" - did you already delete that miserable insinuation you wrote about Arturia?
I have not posted on this site in years, and yet... I have been following this thread, and honestly you have done almost nothing but post passive aggressive replies to random people who you disagree with for pages upon pages in this thread. I would wager that if I go digging through your post history overall, which I can't be bothered to do, I would find more of the same. I would suggest lightening TF up, but that's just me.

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KVRAF
4613 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:12 pm

I strongly disagree , it's not just you :hihi:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
94 posts since 8 Jun, 2009

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:15 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:12 pm
I strongly disagree , it's not just you :hihi:
One would think that someone who has been a member of this site since 2003, nearly 2 DECADES, wouldn't be acting so... young...

KVRAF
1795 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:05 pm

EnGee wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:15 pm
fairlyclose wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:32 pm
EnGee wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:05 pm
Personally, I'm fine with the GUI and workflow :) The thing might be useful (but still accessory) is to use the two empty spaces and fill them with algorithms categorized by the number of carriers, so we can immediately choose the algorithm we want. I made an ugly illustration of it below: :hihi:

Using empty space for algorithms chart.jpg

Anyway, I can just go through the dial and choose the one I want, so it is not an essential feature.
I prefer being able to choose from a graphic like this (well perhaps not exactly like yours :) )
But that is quicker for me too
In MODX (FM-X) you can search for the algorithm in a matrix like depending on the carriers and chains, but that for 88 algorithms and 8 operators might be necessary. For 32 algorithms, I think it is still useful for choosing the algorithm by clicking on its icon preferably :)
F-em, which also has 8 operators, uses a matrix which I find easy enough. But that is about the limit of using a matrix interface for me - they also get unwieldy

KVRist
315 posts since 15 Oct, 2001 from Santa Fe, NM

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:51 pm

davidv@plogue wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:17 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:26 am
+1. This is another aspect of a modern GUI, and of improving the user experience.
I just don't see it sorry, here's our rationale (like it or hate it)

Completely unedited, adlib on a Saturday before starting supper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGiu4lvwmh4

Cheers
Thanks. That video is very helpful. I guess this is actually a whole new concept for me, and that's why I questioned it. I just wasn't seeing this as a "safe" way to save and recall settings in a project. I'm just used to saving presets in soft synths. And I was adding unnecessary steps. But now I am confused about what the A and B columns are for in the SYX view... maybe that's in the manual.

EDIT: OK, having tried a Logic project this way, without saving presets, I have to say it isn't a good method for me. One thing I noticed is that if I open the project and make changes to the "patch", like change the effects or pick a different patch from a .syx file and then I close the project, Logic doesn't prompt me to save it - it doesn't think anything has changed? Kinda scary.

KVRAF
7607 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:42 pm

fairlyclose wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:05 pm
EnGee wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:15 pm
fairlyclose wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:32 pm
EnGee wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:05 pm
Personally, I'm fine with the GUI and workflow :) The thing might be useful (but still accessory) is to use the two empty spaces and fill them with algorithms categorized by the number of carriers, so we can immediately choose the algorithm we want. I made an ugly illustration of it below: :hihi:

Using empty space for algorithms chart.jpg

Anyway, I can just go through the dial and choose the one I want, so it is not an essential feature.
I prefer being able to choose from a graphic like this (well perhaps not exactly like yours :) )
But that is quicker for me too
In MODX (FM-X) you can search for the algorithm in a matrix like depending on the carriers and chains, but that for 88 algorithms and 8 operators might be necessary. For 32 algorithms, I think it is still useful for choosing the algorithm by clicking on its icon preferably :)
F-em, which also has 8 operators, uses a matrix which I find easy enough. But that is about the limit of using a matrix interface for me - they also get unwieldy
No! I meant for the search function only. The synth itself is fixed algorithms, just like the DX7 but for 8 operators. I wish I have an editor like OPS7 that can communicate with FM-X because although there is a touch screen, it's not as responsive as my phone for example, so I end up with highlighting the parameter and use the data wheel. It's not bad, but I need to get used to the slow workflow. I wonder how they could program the DX7 from that tiny screen!

KVRist
294 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:52 pm

fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:06 pm
Yet this old software already presented a better GUI than what it's in here, IMO
i was about to ask if I could get what fmr is smoking, but then realised it’s probably a mixture of furniture polish and glue.

about the only constructive point you’ve made is about the algorithm display and even then as it’s on a rotary, and the arrangement updates in real time I don’t think it’s a big deal. most of the the time you were dealing with a handful of algorithms on the dx7 and you’d wind up remembering what numbers they are.

KVRist
33 posts since 27 Apr, 2004 from Andria (BT) - Italy

Post Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:32 pm

First of all my compliments for this incredible software. the fidelity with respect to the dx7 is absolute. Regarding the GUI I find it functional and comfortable. it would be nice to have in addition a representation in which all 6 envelopes appear (clearly visible and all edible) and at the same time also the volume of the 6 operators. There are many programming situations in which it would be very convenient, since after choosing algorithm and frequencies, FM programming often becomes a fine tuning of those parameters: env and volume.
Another thing: it would be nice to insert the additional parameters of dx7 II which are also found in the tx802. In particular the additions to the ENV pitch. Unfortunately, loading the sysex of these models completely loses compatibility in those sounds (see brass, trumpets, .. of tx802) in which they are used.

KVRist
132 posts since 12 Nov, 2020

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:30 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:42 am
You’re forgetting about support requests. More sales equals more support. Could be licensing issues, bugs being reported multiple times by different users, feature requests coming in via email, weird PC/host/plugin format related issues, etc. If you have a large user base that can become a fulltime job in and of itself. And if it goes from spending one hour a day responding to emails to four, then it’s probably not enough to hire a support person and you spend half your day writing emails when you want to be doing other things.
This sort of mentality is typical KVR... Apparently, no company should ever sell ANY software at all, because the 'flood of support requests' will cause them to go bust. Laughable.
This insane idea is normally brought out by fanboys of some developer or other, when ever anybody questions the price of a VST, and dares to suggest that the company might make more money if they brought the price down and sold more copies. How does Air Music Tech cope with their constant sales of Hybrid 3 at a dollar or so at Plugin Boutique? They surely must have gone bankrupt by now, with all those 'support requests' that come flooding in.

As far as OPS7 goes, has anybody got a video showing any decent sounds from it? I remember using Dexed and downloading a huge amount of presets that were available for free somewhere, and they were almost all so 'FM' sounding and not usable. Maybe one out of every fifty was usable, but you can't spend that amount of time going through presets to find something decent when you're trying to write a song. I would say the D50 is a hundred times better than the DX7 when it comes to finding good presets - the D50 is basically nothing but good presets, including all the preset packs that are available. Does the OPS7 offer anything that is actually worth buying it for?

KVRist
294 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:06 am

i'm not sure something based on a dx7 is what you're after.

"here's bit-exact dx7 clone"

"does it make sounds that don't sound like they come from a dx7?"

"er..." <insert gif of nation fillion in castle attempting to explain something here>

User avatar
KVRAF
4613 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:23 am

abernathy wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:51 pm
davidv@plogue wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:17 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:26 am
+1. This is another aspect of a modern GUI, and of improving the user experience.
I just don't see it sorry, here's our rationale (like it or hate it)

Completely unedited, adlib on a Saturday before starting supper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGiu4lvwmh4

Cheers
Thanks. That video is very helpful. I guess this is actually a whole new concept for me, and that's why I questioned it. I just wasn't seeing this as a "safe" way to save and recall settings in a project. I'm just used to saving presets in soft synths. And I was adding unnecessary steps. But now I am confused about what the A and B columns are for in the SYX view... maybe that's in the manual.

EDIT: OK, having tried a Logic project this way, without saving presets, I have to say it isn't a good method for me. One thing I noticed is that if I open the project and make changes to the "patch", like change the effects or pick a different patch from a .syx file and then I close the project, Logic doesn't prompt me to save it - it doesn't think anything has changed? Kinda scary.
If youdrop sysex patches in the a-b column , you can then selects these from the A-B patch panel for layering or sequencing over seperate midichannels
Image
Image
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
10536 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:25 am

gaggle of hermits wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:52 pm
fmr wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:06 pm
Yet this old software already presented a better GUI than what it's in here, IMO
i was about to ask if I could get what fmr is smoking, but then realised it’s probably a mixture of furniture polish and glue.

about the only constructive point you’ve made is about the algorithm display and even then as it’s on a rotary, and the arrangement updates in real time I don’t think it’s a big deal. most of the the time you were dealing with a handful of algorithms on the dx7 and you’d wind up remembering what numbers they are.
Oh look, another fanboy with "ad hominem" attacks, and nothing else. :roll:
Last edited by fmr on Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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