MAC vs Windows for production

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
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fmr
KVRAF
10428 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:39 am

mgw38 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:30 pm
fmr wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:48 am
Well, even in the Pro Tools universe (which was once almost 100% Mac based) it seems that there are nowadays more than 50% using Windows (based on a poll ran at the Pro Tools user group a couple of years ago). That must mean something :shrug:
Sounds fishy. Have you ever used Pro Tools on Windows? „Pure torture“ doesn‘t even begin to describe it. And I‘m not eben talking about the lovely Windows 7 esthetic. :)
I'm stating a fact. You are expressing an opinion (your opinion) :shrug:

And I like the aesthetics of Windows 7, BTW (as well as countless others). What I really hate is "flatness".
Fernando (FMR)

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KVRAF
2582 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Post Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 am

The problem with society today is that everybody believes that the results of a poll on a website is a fact. ;)

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fmr
KVRAF
10428 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:58 am

mgw38 wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 am
The problem with society today is that everybody believes that the results of a poll on a website is a fact. ;)
The results ARE a fact. Whether they are representative of the reality or not, that's another subject, and can be discussed. I was carefully enough to present them as what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

Anyway, I am very skeptical about polls and statistics in general.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRist
51 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:05 am

It's funny, this discussion is in EVERY forum I visited in my life: Video production - Mac vs. PC. Photos - Mac vs. PC. Audio - Mac vs. PC.

And every single one of those threads is popcorn worthy.

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KVRAF
8057 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:11 am

mgw38 wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 am
The problem with society today is that everybody believes that the results of a poll on a website is a fact. ;)
After much research (nearly 3 minutes on Google), I agree.

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KVRAF
1758 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:49 am

Johnny! wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:47 am
Mac has been the platform of choice for any serious audio work for professionals for years now.
I'll just add my +1 for this not being the case, heh. Just in case this myth might still be taken seriously by someone new to all this, and bumping into it in its classic form like that. Especially these days both platforms are used by professionals doing (very serious :P ) audio work all over the world. Personally, I use Windows-based workstations, and they work in an exceptionally stable and reliable manner - uptime with DAW software constantly open sometimes counted in weeks, never crashing. Dedicated audio systems with RME hardware. Note that all this doesn't mean Macs would work somehow worse, it just means that this platform works super solid, and is also routinely used so, in a professional context; nothing else implied here.

KVRian
1140 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Kocmoc

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:48 am

This 2013 machine hasnt crashed a single time and has DAW open even while I game sometimes (or vice versa, then I'm like "where the f... does that sound come" and notice I have some game open in the background) and has uptimes of over year. Win7.
Soft Knees - Demoscene - Live 10 - Diva - Omnisphere - Slate Digital VSX - TDR - Kush Audio - Fabfilter - PA - Valhalla - Fuse - Pulsar - NI - OekSound etc...

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KVRAF
1887 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Post Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:26 pm

Guenon wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:49 am
Johnny! wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:47 am
Mac has been the platform of choice for any serious audio work for professionals for years now.
I'll just add my +1 for this not being the case, heh. Just in case this myth might still be taken seriously by someone new to all this, and bumping into it in its classic form like that. Especially these days both platforms are used by professionals doing (very serious :P ) audio work all over the world. Personally, I use Windows-based workstations, and they work in an exceptionally stable and reliable manner - uptime with DAW software constantly open sometimes counted in weeks, never crashing. Dedicated audio systems with RME hardware. Note that all this doesn't mean Macs would work somehow worse, it just means that this platform works super solid, and is also routinely used so, in a professional context; nothing else implied here.
Obviously "serious pro audio" work can be done on pretty much anything anymore, even Linux if your DAW of choice is available there. There are definitely a lot of film and studio professionals, especially older ones, who are still on the Mac out of habit, familiarity and simplicity: one vendor, one warranty, local repairs and no geekery required. Not once have I ever seen Protools in a professional studio running on a Windows PC. I'm sure they exist, but at least in the US it's far less common. This helps perpetuate the myth of Mac dominance here, when it's probably not reflective of the overall market. In the hobbyist space it would make sense for there to be many more PCs due to the much larger install base and lower cost of entry. In other parts of the world, especially those running Cubase/Nuendo, Reaper or especially FL Studio, Windows PCs are far more common and probably outnumber the Mac in most cases. I'd be curious to know the Ableton Live split because it seems the most evenly divided to me.

KVRist
150 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:01 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:32 pm
My experience is diametrically opposite to yours. The last time Windows crashed on me was in 2003. Studio One crashed on me in the first few weeks I started using it, which is almost exactly a year ago now. I have not had any application crash since (and the crash before that would have been several years earlier). OTOH, I don't recall a week at work without an application crash and it was only maybe 6 or 7 years ago that most application crashes would drag the whole system down with them. Apple seemed to sort that out eventually, though.
My experience is diametrically opposite to yours. This was confirmed by running Windows 7 on at least 5 different custom PCs that I built for myself, colleagues and friends. On each system, Windows would "hard crash" every 6 months or so forcing me to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins (not to mention countless drivers). Since moving back to a MacBook Pro in 2015, I haven't had a single crash.

The constant troubleshooting on these Windows 7 systems was infuriating and exhausting by comparison.

Having said that, I haven't had any major problems with my Windows 10 Intel NUC mini PCs that I use as "Media Center" PCs connected to the TV in my living room and the one in my bedroom. But all I am running on these NUC PCs is the Chrome browser.

So if all you do is web browsing and word processing, a PC will almost certainly work fine. But for any more demanding/complex tasks, good luck.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MKS-50 with MidiClub JunoCtrl programmer, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi SMR4 mk2 (4-pole filter,) Shruthi MP4 (multi-pole filter,) Tetra, Virus TI

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KVRAF
1758 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:41 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:01 pm
at least 5 different custom PCs that I built for myself, colleagues and friends. On each system, Windows would "hard crash" every 6 months or so forcing me to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins (not to mention countless drivers). Since moving back to a MacBook Pro in 2015, I haven't had a single crash.

The constant troubleshooting on these Windows 7 systems was infuriating and exhausting by comparison
This isn't normal at all. Because the only other common denominator mentioned, besides the systems being Windows PCs, is that they were custom built and maintained by the same person, I find it likely that it's a case of user error. It's a touchy topic, and mentioning it in this manner isn't probably the greatest idea on a forum, but in my experience this is likely; in the sense of disregarding known-to-work compatible component combinations, and best practices in software installation and general maintenance. Doing actual custom builds on a professional level isn't that trivial. (On the other hand, good and expertly done custom builds are very solid and dependable. Again, I'm talking about systems that routinely accumulate uptimes counted in weeks or months, and just don't crash.)

Especially when describing the "constant troubleshooting" being "infuriating and exhausting", it raises these flags more. Having worked in many professional settings, this sort of thing isn't required at all if the systems are designed expertly from the get go.

If that many systems, built and maintained by the same person, crashed like this even once during a short timespan like that, in a professional environment, the contents of the custom build and procedures used would be looked into pretty thoroughly, and if the systems weren't replaced outright, they would also definitely be imaged after the first reinstall, if that wasn't done already, so that the "countless drivers" and "hundreds of plugins" wouldn't have to be reinstalled from scratch again, which is a realistic precaution if so many machines built in the same fashion have already failed at short intervals. Then, if it happens the second time ("every six months" sounds absolutely awful) it's out of the question this is kept going without any such measures, and a total rebuild consulting someone else is more likely.

In any case, we are talking about something that happened years ago - major OS generations ago - so it's more like idle conversation than indicative of how things presently are, which ever way they may be. Tldr: this isn't normal, and ironically even if you are implying your experiences indicate PCs aren't suitable for professional/serious work, it's the really serious production environments where you are least likely to run into stuff like this.

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GRRRRRRR!
12526 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:28 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:01 pm
My experience is diametrically opposite to yours. This was confirmed by running Windows 7 on at least 5 different custom PCs that I built for myself, colleagues and friends. On each system, Windows would "hard crash" every 6 months or so forcing me to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins (not to mention countless drivers).
1. Windows 7 was 12 years ago, it is less than irrelevant. It's also the worst version of NT I used. I did my best to avoid it for as longs as I could and I got off it at the first opportunity. But it never crashed on me.
2. Perhaps you were just krap at custom building systems? I know mine were never as stable as OEM systems I used, which is why I stopped doing it. Maybe you're just a slow learner?
Since moving back to a MacBook Pro in 2015, I haven't had a single crash.
Have you switched it on in that time? If so, I can only assume you don't use it for much. Try doing 3D modelling and animation on it and see how much fun that is. So if all you do is music production, maybe a Mac will work fine. The problem for me is that music isn't close to the most demanding thing I use my computer for.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

KVRist
150 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:44 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:28 pm
Gadget Fiend wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:01 pm
My experience is diametrically opposite to yours. This was confirmed by running Windows 7 on at least 5 different custom PCs that I built for myself, colleagues and friends. On each system, Windows would "hard crash" every 6 months or so forcing me to do a clean install of the OS and hundreds of plugins (not to mention countless drivers).
1. Windows 7 was 12 years ago, it is less than irrelevant. It's also the worst version of NT I used. I did my best to avoid it for as longs as I could and I got off it at the first opportunity. But it never crashed on me.
2. Perhaps you were just krap at custom building systems? I know mine were never as stable as OEM systems I used, which is why I stopped doing it. Maybe you're just a slow learner?
Since moving back to a MacBook Pro in 2015, I haven't had a single crash.
Have you switched it on in that time? If so, I can only assume you don't use it for much. Try doing 3D modelling and animation on it and see how much fun that is. So if all you do is music production, maybe a Mac will work fine. The problem for me is that music isn't close to the most demanding thing I use my computer for.
"Maybe you were just krap at custom building systems?" "Maybe you're just a slow learner?"

Maybe you honestly don't realize how obnoxious and patronizing these comments are? I'd like to think you have a psychological disorder that makes it impossible for you to act like a normal human being. But I think you enjoy trying to feel superior to other people.

For you information, I know a great deal about optimizing the BIOS and configuring the Windows Registry on more than just the systems I have built. I also know how to select top of the line components that will "play nice" with each other if you elect to build a custom PC. You don't have to be an IT nerd to know these things. It's not rocket science.

What makes me question your knowledge of Windows and PCs in general is another post you made championing Windows 8 and describing Windows 11 as a dumbed down version of Windows 10.

Windows 8 was an abomination that tried to merge the craptastic Windows Phone OS with the Windows desktop OS. Populating the tried and true Windows 7 Start Menu with these useless/distracting "live tiles" was the height of idiocy. I don't care how much keystroke data Microsoft had gathered indicating that they needed to make improvements to the Start Menu, the people responsible for the new Windows 8 Start Menu design should have been fired for what they came up with. It just goes to show you that Microsoft knew nothing about design and usability. Thank God they have finally hired some user experience and interaction design people who have a clue. Windows 11 isn't a massive leap forward in usability. But it's definitely an improvement over Windows 10. I'm just astonished that even after 6 years Microsoft still can't seem to replace the Windows Control Panel with the newer Windows 8/10 era Settings app. Honestly, how hard can that be?
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MKS-50 with MidiClub JunoCtrl programmer, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi SMR4 mk2 (4-pole filter,) Shruthi MP4 (multi-pole filter,) Tetra, Virus TI

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