VCV Rack 2

Modular Synth design and releases (Reaktor, SynthEdit, Tassman, etc.)
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fmr
KVRAF
10416 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:53 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:25 am
coroknight wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:03 pm
Functional wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:56 pm
coroknight wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:16 pm
Stan Navi wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:11 am
Softube should think about upgraiding their Modular usability. Because not having VST is what held be back from VCV. And i think with VCV2, Softube will loose a good portion of users.
Why? Just because VCV looks analog doesn't mean shit. Softube actually uses analog emulation.
Lol. "Analog emulation" can mean literally anything from just adding noise hiss to output or some stage to using non-linear DSP.

Which brings us to how ridiculous this statement is: all of that depends on the people who make the plugins themselves. So whatever is your threshold for "analog modeling", you'll find that there's plenty of modules for VCV that will cross this threshold. Or maybe you won't, because you kind of imply here that you don't even know what you're talking about.
My threshold is circuit modeling, because that's what Softube does and it sounds better than any of the other "analog emulation" that I've tried. Do any of the VCV modules do that? Because otherwise VCV is just a fancy VST host in my eyes.
Yes , vult modules amongst others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfS50tbYQK4
Vult modules are among the best. And for the price of ONE module in Softube, we can buy a whole bunch of them. Softube are among the best plug-ins, but are way overpriced, IMO.

Sure, they probably have to pay royalties to use the original manufacturers labels, graphics and, above all, names, but for the users that doesn't add any value.

Personally, I would not trade 10 modules for JUST ONE, only because it has Buchla written in the GUI.
Fernando (FMR)

KVRian
559 posts since 17 Nov, 2015 from Yuma

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 am


Vult modules are among the best. And for the price of ONE module in Softube, we can buy a whole bunch of them. Softube are among the best plug-ins, but are way overpriced, IMO.

Sure, they probably have to pay royalties to use the original manufacturers labels, graphics and, above all, names, but for the users that doesn't add any value.

Personally, I would not trade 10 modules for JUST ONE, only because it has Buchla written in the GUI.
yes, and its even better. for the price of not getting softube modules you get 2300 in vcv! amazing!

cnt
KVRian
532 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:03 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:38 am
cnt wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:20 pm
Suppressing any forking..its not good for the users nor developers.
Neither is quoting a single source as though they're authoritive.
Never said they were authoritive.
What about deleting any mention of the Apple forks, is that also false?

What was the reason behind removing thr VST version of VCV then, if you know the answer?

KVRAF
8856 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:06 pm

I'm hoping that once this is properly commercialized and integrated into DAWs that some big name developers would be open to making modules for this. I know at least one VST/AU developer who is very well known for their analog models of filters who has expressed an interest in VCV builds. As far as I understand, there's nothing locking a developer to the VCV Rack store or library either so they could develop, distribute, and sell their own modules outside of the store if desired.

This could really be huge. It's a platform that allows for easy turning of DSP into a functional product. Because it's so easy to develop for, the quality of the modules really varies, but there's no reason others couldn't look to create VCV Rack modules of a much higher quality if the market existed for it.

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addled muppet weed
83490 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:15 pm

id like to see "every module i own copied exactly" then i can do practice patches on the laptop at the missus house and have presets :hyper:

KVRAF
1738 posts since 6 Nov, 2006

Post Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:19 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:06 pm
if the market existed for it.
that's the key really. unfiltered audio jumped in early.

many devs have their hands pretty full these days w/all the apple changes and their own workload of updates and all that.. but seems like carving off some code here and there for modules in VCV might be a solid revenue stream and fun to do if the market is there.

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KVRAF
10237 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:01 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:25 am
Yes, vult modules amongst others
Vult filters are wonderful indeed, but I don't think what he describes in the video is what it commonly referred to as "component level modelling"? He describes how he implements different filter architectures / topologies in his devices (in other word - algorithms), but he doesn't really seem to model particular resisors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, i.e. the "components"; and their physical properties - how they respond to signal of different strength or frequency and how that response varies over time or between two units of the same component?

In the end I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference (and his filters do sound amazing!) nor do I really care, but wanted to find out if the terms we use have the same meaning?
FOR SALE: Reason 12 Standard license EUR175 *click*





Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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fmr
KVRAF
10416 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:15 am

antic604 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:01 am
He describes how he implements different filter architectures / topologies in his devices (in other word - algorithms), but he doesn't really seem to model particular resisors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, i.e. the "components"; and their physical properties - how they respond to signal of different strength or frequency and how that response varies over time or between two units of the same component?
I think Vult's approach is modeling the circuits as they exist published (e.g. following the schematics) and using some sort of Tolerance Modeling to create some instabilities to model the behavior of those circuits in the real world.

He doesn't want to "copy" existing branded models specifically, rather the broad concept behind each type. At least, it's how I see them.
Last edited by fmr on Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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Beware the Quoth
29929 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:25 am

cnt wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:03 am
What was the reason behind removing thr VST version of VCV then, if you know the answer?
There was no removal. The code is still there.
Just for the record: Nobody drove me away from this project.

My original intention was to (slightly) modify / extend VCV Rack, post the contribution and be done with it.

As it turned out, this plugin version required a lot of modifications, not only to the Rack (v0.6x) core itself but also to the (3rd party) modules, rendering the plugin incompatible with the mainline Rack source tree and 3rd party module repos.

I never had any plans to update this fork forever (as mentioned in one of my early KVR posts).

It is what it is. Enjoy, make some music, and support VCV Rack, especially if you want the current Rack version in VST format.
successfully and consistently snarky

KVRist
248 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:01 am

imo it s not like one have a secret sauce.. softube i had higher expectation on some modules while Vcv i haden t any and got surprised.. i would say it mostly the patchs and module used, reaktor sofutbe vcv all can soound analog and all can also fall short vs analog

KVRAF
8856 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am

fmr wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:15 am
antic604 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:01 am
He describes how he implements different filter architectures / topologies in his devices (in other word - algorithms), but he doesn't really seem to model particular resisors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, i.e. the "components"; and their physical properties - how they respond to signal of different strength or frequency and how that response varies over time or between two units of the same component?
I thubk Vult's approach is modeling the circuits as they exist published (e.g. following the shematics) and using some sort of Tolerance Modeling to crete some instabilities the lodel the behavior of those circuits in the real world.

He doesn't want to "copy" existing branded models specifically, rather the broad concept behind each type. At least, it's how I see them.
Here's Vult (Leonardo) himself had to say in the VCV Drums thread over on their forum:
Over the years, I have stated my approach of modeling to this community but I will reiterate it for new members. When doing a model, my first step it to create an over detailed simulation model in order to try to capture the sound of the original as close as mathematically possible. Once I have that over detailed model, I start making optimizations by removing the parts that are complex and have little impact to de sound. The next step is to play with the model or my custom circuit in order to personalize or “fix” quirks of the original, basically modding the thing. Last step is to create the DSP code.

In the case of the drums, the careful looker will see that these are not exact 909 drums, starting with the fact that these have more controls than the original 909 drums. These are my modded circuits. I always avoid using the word “emulation” because that’s implies that if you get a 909 and you compare the sound of mine it must sound exactly the same. But that will never be the case. Even my two snare boards that are made with the same components sound different. This is in part due to the tolerances of the components and the differences in the semiconductors. I have some measurements that I will publish at some point.

In conclusion, if you would like to have a version of the drum machine that I would have made in the 80’s, this is it. The analog drums are based on the 909 circuits but they are modded versions (check specially my Rim and Toms). The cymbals are custom and the 808 kick is modded as well.
There's more later on in the thread. He has a blog also.

https://community.vcvrack.com/t/vcv-drums/14030/25

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KVRAF
4523 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:53 pm

antic604 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:01 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:25 am
Yes, vult modules amongst others
Vult filters are wonderful indeed, but I don't think what he describes in the video is what it commonly referred to as "component level modelling"? He describes how he implements different filter architectures / topologies in his devices (in other word - algorithms), but he doesn't really seem to model particular resisors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, i.e. the "components"; and their physical properties - how they respond to signal of different strength or frequency and how that response varies over time or between two units of the same component?

In the end I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference (and his filters do sound amazing!) nor do I really care, but wanted to find out if the terms we use have the same meaning?
He uses wolfram systemmodeler ( wolfram mathematica )
So , yeah it's moddeled
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRAF
4523 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:11 pm

Good read
https://www.vult-dsp.com/post/making-of ... p8NBC6uPJo
And here's how he explains it on the wolfram blog
https://blog.wolfram.com/2020/07/23/dig ... m-modeler/


Where has coroknight gone ? :D
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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KVRian
1234 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:16 am

I've been building and testing Rack v2 and whatever plugins can be built for it at this time.

Lots of user-level improvements. Nothing earth-shattering to report yet but it is still a WIP.

Yeh, I'm sure the commercial developers can smell the money in the water, but VCV Rack has a big user-base, more intensive commercialization is inevitable.

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fmr
KVRAF
10416 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:26 am

StudioDave wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:16 am
I've been building and testing Rack v2 and whatever plugins can be built for it at this time.

Lots of user-level improvements. Nothing earth-shattering to report yet but it is still a WIP.

Yeh, I'm sure the commercial developers can smell the money in the water, but VCV Rack has a big user-base, more intensive commercialization is inevitable.
I read on thge FB that Squinky Labs < https://library.vcvrack.com/?query=&bra ... =&license= > do not have plans to update their modules to version 2.

IO hope someone is kind enough to pick them and take care of updating. In th meanwhile, I guess I will have to keep version 1, even after upgrading to version 2. I hope they can coexist peacefully.
Fernando (FMR)

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