Ways to make Wavetables for Hive?!

[Urs]

Ok..i get the fact that sample conversion, is unacceptable for non chaotic people like me.
I will shed a tear, but a shiny one.

Product development is a vast chess game though. You try to position your creations in a niche that distinguishes them from all the other competing products. With Hive it was all about positioning it as the fastest and best sounding wavetable engine. To do so, one of our chess moves was to forgo the means to build dull sounding wavetables that don't do Hive's sound justice. I think we played that very well and we pretty much succeeded with our goals. Adding sample import or a visual editor would be equivalent with a great gambit at this point. We will think about a lot of moves before we'll consider it.

Aha! And that's exactly why Germany is currently getting outsmarted everywhere.
While younger, smarter, more obsessed programmers shell out some new products
that include cool new functions, good old Germany plays marketing chess again.
The lack of Hive 2`s WT Editor is similar to building nice German electric Cars,
while forgetting to build charging stations. Wont get far enough with that thinking


I looked at some explanations on the scripting, but as a lifelong math-avoider, it makes by
brain hurt in unknown regions. Any ideas someone, where to start? Preschool or good
medical help? Resisted the urge for acquiring alternative Synths already, so not all hope
is lost.

So we made the fastest and best sounding wavetables engine but we're still outsmarted by younger, smarter, more obsessed programmers?

[Teksonik]

When do you plan on releasing these "fastest and best sounding" wavetable engines?

Don't get me wrong I love Hive and Zebra 2 a lot but to be honest I think your ego is showing.

[Urs]

When do you plan on releasing these "fastest and best sounding" wavetable engines?

Don't get me wrong I love Hive and Zebra 2 a lot but to be honest I think your ego is showing.

Sorry, I had hoped my sarcasm was clear. Isn't it ironic that people who think we're somewhat dumb and behind still somehow try to make an argument to "get what they need" in our software?

That said, if anyone can point out a wavetable synthesizer with similar realtime interpolation methods that uses less CPU than Hive when sweeping through wavetables, I'm all ears. I thought we had done our research, but then there's surely something out there we might have missed.

[Urs]

(also, I'm watching Foundation and have overused the chess analogy a bit too often as of late)

[Urs]

No matter how powerful a tool is if someone won't use it then it become useless.

Same goes for wavetable editors. Let's take the most simple of wavetable sweeps, a plain PWM which starts as a narrow pulse and becomes a square wave in 256 frames. How long do you think you'll need to draw this in your editor of choice? And now how much longer and how much more difficult does it get to paint a sweep from an "ahhh" type of waveform to an "ooh" type one? Is it even possible?

In my opinion wavetable editors are vastly glorified for something one can not easily achieve in them.

I'm happy to discuss this point if someone has good examples. If possible, examples that are not just stitched together arbitrary waveforms but nice sweeps with smooth spectral movement and none of the typical artefacts.

[codec_spurt]

....

[codec_spurt]

...

[Kapellor]

So we made the fastest and best sounding wavetables engine but we're still outsmarted by younger, smarter, more obsessed programmers?

Yes, deal gently with it.

Isn't it ironic that people who think we're somewhat dumb and behind still somehow try to make an argument to "get what they need" in our software?

Thats paranoia. Nobody wants a WT Editor in Hive now, after all this witty sarcasm and irony.
Talking about poisoning the dinner, when you're the only one who is poison resistant.

Same goes for wavetable editors. Let's take the most simple of wavetable sweeps, a plain PWM which starts as a narrow pulse and becomes a square wave in 256 frames. How long do you think you'll need to draw this in your editor of choice? And now how much longer and how much more difficult does it get to paint a sweep from an "ahhh" type of waveform to an "ooh" type one? Is it even possible?

In Vital, there are those ...uh..modifiers...which can apply this voodoo math's to the wavetable to
uhhm..modify it in magic ways i heard.
Also would be cool if there would be an input field to uhh..input math, instead of importing nothing.
Has that been done before? I think not.

[Urs]

Thats paranoia. Nobody wants a WT Editor in Hive now, after all this witty sarcasm and irony.
Talking about poisoning the dinner, when you're the only one who is poison resistant.

Strange, the talk before my alleged showing of paranoia sounds a lot like criticism on our thought process of not adding such editor. As if, you know, our decision was not smart and such. Even though I haven't mentioned half of it.

But it's great that nobody wants a WT editor anymore. Much appreciated.

In Vital, there are those ...uh..modifiers...which can apply this voodoo math's to the wavetable to
uhhm..modify it in magic ways i heard.

You mean, almost like Zebra/Zebralette?

Also would be cool if there would be an input field to uhh..input math, instead of importing nothing.
Has that been done before? I think not.

Sure, Serum has an input field for a single line of equations.

Anyhow...

Background: There is yet another reason not to deploy editors in Hive. If there is something editable as part of the UI, whatever is editable (script, wavetable, whatsoever) needs to be stored inside the preset. A Hive preset would use up to little more than 4 MB of disc space. We chose to reference only external files (.wav, .uhm) in Hive presets because we did not want to blow up the memory usage of the large preset collections. 128 presets with two full custom wavetables each would accumulate to 500 MB of data. Additionally, of course, if wavetables or scripts are tucked away in presets, they kind of don't become very reusable. Gems may get lost in hidden corners.

Thus - and if we jump past a lengthy discussion as to whether file references are better or worse than bloated presets: Even if we added some kind of text input - which as you might know may be obstructed by the host behaviour - people would still have to save the text file in order to make things work. But if they close the project before doing so, the work is lost. Therefore, having a workflow where saving the .uhm file from an external editor trigger Hive to refresh the result is fast and it inherently prevents people from accidentally losing their work.

Also, people can use their editor of choice, for which some people may have already added syntax highlighting and such. We could never have done it any better. We make plug-ins, not word processors.

[AnX]

Stitching together wavs is enough here, but wts got dull fast. Using code/maths/drawing is the most non musical workflow killer going.

Ymmv, no offence to anyone with a diff view (incase of moderation)

[enCiphered]

Using code/maths/drawing is the most non musical workflow killer going.

+1
Pretty much nails it.

[Howard]

…wts got dull fast.

Wavetables get dull fast?

[Kapellor]

[Kapellor]

Strange, the talk before my alleged showing of paranoia sounds a lot like criticism on our thought process of not adding such editor. As if, you know, our decision was not smart and such. Even though I haven't mentioned half of it.

Relax, it was just fatalism paired with a hint of criticizing the current, stubborn
german situation solely. You explained the reasons why a WT Editor aint a deal,
gave good examples how to work around that. No harm done, just sweet honey
from the Hive's Queen.

But it's great that nobody wants a WT editor anymore. Much appreciated.

Time to sell my E-Golf, err.. Hive now, pfew.
I wouldnt even do that, if Hive had no WT's at all man.

You mean, almost like Zebra/Zebralette?

Yea, but inside that single Synth's WT Editor

Sure, Serum has an input field for a single line of equations.

If i would knew how to even write a single line in there, i would have a chance with those .uhm's.
Still thinking about where to start digging into it.

Background...

Explained nicely, thanks again.

Also, people can use their editor of choice, for which some people may have already added syntax highlighting and such. We could never have done it any better. We make plug-ins, not word processors.

If i could highlight sarcasm purple in my shell, i would.

[AnX]

…wts got dull fast.

Wavetables get dull fast?

Yes, dull as in boring