Inaccurate note start timing in Zebra and Hive

[bluesawsq]

I was using ZebraHZ to create kick drum sounds, and I found a problem with note timing accuracy in ZebraHZ. The audio output timing seems to vary randomly from 0 to 2 ms too early compared to the note start in Ableton Live 10. This timing variation makes it practically impossible to use Zebra for layering kick drum sounds. And it was quite surprising to see rendered audio start up to 2 ms before the beat when MIDI notes are quantized to start exactly on beat.

Then I tried the same notes and similar kick drum sound in Hive 2, and the result was only a little bit better. I got about 0 to 1 ms random timing variation in Hive 2, also audio output ahead of MIDI.

Vital, Serum and Massive X seem to have very accurate timing. Using those synths the audio output starts exactly at the same time position where the MIDI note starts, and there isn't any timing variation.

Is there any way to get accurate timing with Zebra and Hive? Or is this some bug or incompatibility with Live 10, maybe related to latency compensation?

[Urs]

The internal control rate for MIDI events is 16 samples, so timing should be off by no more than 8 samples. That's still at least 5 times more accurate than MIDI itself, depending on the sample rate of the host.

[chrisjordan1]

Because MIDI events have a 16-sample internal control rate, timing errors should be no more than 8 samples. Depending on the sample rate of the host, this is still at least 5 times more precise than MIDI.

[bluesawsq]

Two screenshots showing the inaccurate and varying timing of ZebraHZ vs accurate and consistent timing of Serum.

ZebraHZ_inaccurate_timing.png

ZebraHZ_inaccurate_timing_zoomed_in.png

The internal control rate for MIDI events is 16 samples, so timing should be off by no more than 8 samples. That's still at least 5 times more accurate than MIDI itself, depending on the sample rate of the host.

Sample rate in the above example is 44100 Hz.
The timing is off by more than 1 ms, about 51 samples, much more than 8 samples.
No other plugins or instruments were used in this project. The inaccuracy is easily reproduced by adding just Zebra to a new empty project. Same inaccuracy can be seen also in Reaper.

ZebraHZ REV12092 VST3 Win x64
Serum 1.286
Ableton Live 10.1.14
Reaper 6.32

[Urs]

No idea. Can you send us the preset? The project even?

The team has tried to reproduce your findings here, but can't reproduce anything out of the ordinary. In fact we found Zebra to be more tight than some other plug-ins you mention.

[bluesawsq]

No idea. Can you send us the preset? The project even?

The team has tried to reproduce your findings here, but can't reproduce anything out of the ordinary. In fact we found Zebra to be more tight than some other plug-ins you mention.

Ableton Live project sent to u-he support email.

[pierb]

Obviously there is something wrong here, but if you need sample accuracy why not simply bounce the sound and use it with a sampler?

[Urs]

No idea. Can you send us the preset? The project even?

The team has tried to reproduce your findings here, but can't reproduce anything out of the ordinary. In fact we found Zebra to be more tight than some other plug-ins you mention.

Ableton Live project sent to u-he support email.

Thank you, we'll investigate it.