Ways to make Wavetables for Hive?!

[Urs]

But it’s very fast and friendly for those who figure it out. Instead of tediously repeating all sorts of steps, they can just edit values and copy snippets from the many examples. Those scripts are quite literally batch operations that are written and executed a gazillion times faster than any UI based waveform drawing. It’s a pity that so many people just brush it off as something weird without even understanding what it is.

[Teksonik]

I'm not brushing it off as "weird" I'm just saying it's not user friendly. Not everybody has the skills or time to "figure it out".

[pdxindy]

Certainly they are including myself but how many would use Wavetables they created without having to learn the .uhm scripting?

Not many people use wavetables they created either. Plenty of people try, and when they made a dozen or so mostly nondescript results, they give up and go download wavetables from somewhere.

[pdxindy]

I'm not brushing it off as "weird" I'm just saying it's not user friendly. Not everybody has the skills or time to "figure it out".

It's no harder than a wavetable editor and in some ways easier... most people don't have the skill or time to figure out a wavetable editor either.

I had no trouble figuring out how to edit existing Uhm scripts. However, there are enough excellent wavetables already in Hive I don't need to and my interest is elsewhere.

Now if someone would come up with a soundset of vocal sounds made from sophisticated Uhm scripts, I'd buy that immediately just to deconstruct it.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Not many people use wavetables they created either. Plenty of people try, and when they made a dozen or so mostly nondescript results, they give up and go download wavetables from somewhere.

This. And then they go download thousands of wavetables, go through a few, maybe flag a handful as good, then give up on the rest because "oh sh*t, I just download thousands of wavetables and I can't possibly spend the time it would take to go through them all." And even if a user does commit to going though the thousands of wavetables they downloaded, the law of diminishing returns quickly comes into play. Like how many "oh, this might make a cool plucked string" or "pretty bell" or "FM growl" wavetables does one actually need? After a certain point, the differences start to become meaningless.

I much prefer curated collections. Plugmon has hit a nice sweet spot: here's some FM tones, here's some classic analog synth wavetables, and bundling those with appropriate banks. I'm happy to benefit from his efforts and pay him for it. I don't need Wavetable creation in Hive. There's other tools for that, and the results I've gotten from those tools are usually disappointing. I'm more than happy to leave that task to others.

[Teksonik]

Not many people use wavetables they created either.

Source?

Plenty of people try, and when they made a dozen or so mostly nondescript results, they give up and go download wavetables from somewhere.

Source?

Go the the Vial forums and see how many wavetables in .vitalwavetable format have been shared.

[Teksonik]

I'm not brushing it off as "weird" I'm just saying it's not user friendly. Not everybody has the skills or time to "figure it out".

It's no harder than a wavetable editor and in some ways easier...

Yet you've never made a wavetable in .uhm format. I've made tons of WTs using other tools and not one using the .uhm scripting.

Again where are all the .uhm wavetables shared freely among users?

I'll take the tools I'm using to create WTs now over having to learn a math based scripting language and apparently I'm not alone.

[AnX]

But it’s very fast and friendly for those who figure it out.

You can say that about anything in life, including music, but if something looks the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, it can be very off putting....

I'm not a WT fan anyway, bit I've made loads with single cycle wavs, but only because I like sampling...tho I never really use the resulting WTs, but I would never even attempt to make one using maths formula

I've seen one example (uhm) of a 3rd party doing it, on your site....I haven't seen any anywhere else using uhm.... maybe they need more publicity (if they exist)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Go the the Vial forums and see how many wavetables in .vitalwavetable format have been shared.

How many are good? How much time would I spend downloading all of those and determining which are good and which aren't? Why not just use Vital? And Vital facilitates WT creation, and their version looks a bit like Zebra's just with better drawing, which I think we'll eventually get in Zebra3.

Tek, you have this habit lately of just not accepting that a developer may not share your vision of how their product should work (Invader2, OPS7, now Hive). You made your case, it was heard, the developer disagreed, move on. I love it when I make a suggestion and a developer says, "great idea" and implements it. Who doesn't? But more often than not, that doesn't happen. That's life.

[pdxindy]

Go the the Vial forums and see how many wavetables in .vitalwavetable format have been shared.

hehehehehe.... I have... most of them are crap, and/or not fundamentally different than wavetables I already have.

[Teksonik]

Tek, you have this habit lately of just not accepting that a developer may not share your vision of how their product should work (Invader2, OPS7, now Hive). You made your case, it was heard, the developer disagreed, move on.

Please look at the thread title: "Ways to make Wavetables for Hive". I gave a useful suggestion back on page one. At least I've made some positive contribution to this thread.

I was not the one who asked for a WT editor in Hive. I already have tools for that job. I am not "making a case" for anything here. I'm simply discussing the merits of other tools when compared to the .uhm scripting.

If the developer wants to come in the thread and engage in discussion I have the right to express my opinion just as he does.

I realize the folly of pushing back against the mighty Urs but we're both simply expressing our opinions. That fact that you happen to disagree with me in any thread is out of my hands and quite frankly of no concern to me.

So in your words....you made your case move on.

I'll leave you with a bit of scripting:

Info "Vocal sweep"

NumFrames = 40

Wave "sin(2*pi*phase*10 + table*2)"
Wave "sin(2*pi*phase*(1+frame - table*8))" blend=multiply

Envelope L0=0 T1=0.1 L1=1 T2=0.9 L2=0
Wave "x*env(phase)^2"
Wave "tanh(x*3)"

Spectrum lowest=0 highest=0 "0"
Normalize base=each

[Teksonik]

Go the the Vial forums and see how many wavetables in .vitalwavetable format have been shared.

hehehehehe.... I have... most of them are crap, and/or not fundamentally different than wavetables I already have.

I'm sorry you feel that way because I find many of them very useful. But again the discussion is how many WTs are made with other tools as compared to .uhm WTs.

Vital has been out for a far shorter time than Hive 2 yet I can find a ton more WTs for it than Hive.

I think the reason for that is the ease of use between the two tools.

Look I don't expect Urs to add a WT Editor to Hive... don't need it....nor do I expect him to drop uhm scripting....not asking for that.

But to once again answer the question posed in this thread...if you own DUNE 3 or Vital you can use their WT editors to make WTs in Hive because they work and sound great.

[Urs]

But again the discussion is how many WTs are made with other tools as compared to .uhm WTs.

Sure. But I suspect our conclusions as to what that says are pretty different.

[Teksonik]

But again the discussion is how many WTs are made with other tools as compared to .uhm WTs.

Sure. But I suspect our conclusions as to what that says are pretty different.

You may be right. The thing is I don't have an emotional attachment to either method. I do have a practical attachment to WT editors because I can actually get results from them.

It may be that since you write code for a living the scripting system seems painfully simple to you but I'd wager a guess that based on the number of WTs released that's not the case for everybody.

Anyone is free to call me an idiot for not getting the scripting system. I won't argue with them but I don't think I'm alone.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. I love Hive 2. In some of my projects there are more instances of it than any other synth. I have nothing bad to say about Hive 2.

I'm just forced to use external tools to make WTs for it and again I'm fine with that since they work perfectly.

[pdxindy]

Yet you've never made a wavetable in .uhm format.

You are jumping to a wrong conclusion... I've made a few dozens of uhm scripts... I wanted to learn how to do it. It is fairly easy actually.

I agree with you at the basic level. It is easy to throw some waveforms into a wavetable editor and call it a wavetable. That is why you can go on the internet and download many thousands of wavetables that are all mostly random repetitive stuff that needs no skill. However, if you want to do something high level, that requires skill no matter how you do it. There is no easy path.