IK MUltimedia UNO Synth

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:29 pm

It was only ever a problem for me if I was running it on USB power. If you use batteries, it's as quiet as a church mouse. IK's obvious solution was to add a ground loop so you can fix it with a TRS cable so they'd consider the job done.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRAF
7540 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:14 am

USB bus noise is not unique to nor a "design flaw" of UNO Synth, and we also cover this on the UNO Synth Specs page (with diagrams, to boot).
*USB power has inherent ground noise, so when connecting the UNO Synth directly to your computer via USB, you may hear more noise and interference than when the synth is connected to a USB wall charger or running via batteries. With the direct computer connection, you can reduce the USB ground noise and other interference by either using a USB isolator or a custom TRS cable into a balanced input on your preamp or audio interface where the ground is not connected at the balanced input side.
EXPOSED (this used to say... oops can't do that, but just know I do want to avoid violating vurt's moral code and stay out of his grey areas)
T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

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addled muppet weed
86198 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:49 am

yup a lot of usb powered things will do the same.
trs cables generally sort it though, i can't say ive noticed any issues once ive added a trs. as bones says, one of those that you buy in supermarkets is fine :)

KVRAF
29984 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:00 am

Shouldn't this be the same with any audio interface then?
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
2349 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:07 am

dellboy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:49 am
Scotty wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:28 am

Let me know how it goes.
The Ground Loop Noise Isolator arrived today, and it works !

It is now completely silent, or at least for my ears. It makes the UNO much more enjoyable to use now. It is pretty obviously a design fault, and IKM need to either fix it or provide one of these gadgets in the box.
Great, I'm glad you got things working well. It is a great little synth and punches well above its weight. Those isolators also work well for Volcas which transmit the adapter noise through their audio outputs, the Volca Keys is the worse of the Volcas I own (have them all except the Nu Tube Bass) but the Isolator makes that problem manageable.

You can find these islolators on Ali Express, I ordered 10 of them for about $60 USD, they work well. I'd link to the ones I bought but they aren't on their site now but there are at least 4 others that look to be the same idea.

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KVRAF
7339 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:12 am

I need to order these too. This is definitely a problem with lots of different gear so a pack of 10 would work great.

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:18 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:00 am
Shouldn't this be the same with any audio interface then?
I imagine they include the isolator hardware within them, which no doubt adds to the cost.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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KVRist
86 posts since 11 Mar, 2021 from Romania

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:46 pm

Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:14 am
USB bus noise is not unique to nor a "design flaw" of UNO Synth, and we also cover this on the UNO Synth Specs page (with diagrams, to boot).
*USB power has inherent ground noise, so when connecting the UNO Synth directly to your computer via USB, you may hear more noise and interference than when the synth is connected to a USB wall charger or running via batteries. With the direct computer connection, you can reduce the USB ground noise and other interference by either using a USB isolator or a custom TRS cable into a balanced input on your preamp or audio interface where the ground is not connected at the balanced input side.
What that page/paragraph says is basically "we sell a music making device and we choose to power it in a way that is almost certainly noisy. Deal with it."

Some brands (Arturia) include USB cables with isolators with their MIDI controllers, instead of providing customers with diagrams of how to make custom cables.

And for something like the 500EUR UNO Synth Pro desktop you should simply include an USB power brick that would cost you 5EUR, instead of that cable.

KVRAF
8249 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:57 pm

digitallysane wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:46 pm
And for something like the 500EUR UNO Synth Pro desktop you should simply include an USB power brick that would cost you 5EUR, instead of that cable.
I returned my UNO Pro (thank you Amazon) as the 'micro' USB power option wasn't good enough for me and kept coming out if I moved the synth (which I did a fair bit in a desktop setup). A real PSU with a proper connector seems like a strange thing to skimp on as it isn't a cheap synth.
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRAF
1784 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:31 am

Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:14 am
USB bus noise is not unique to nor a "design flaw" of UNO Synth, and we also cover this on the UNO Synth Specs page (with diagrams, to boot).
*USB power has inherent ground noise, so when connecting the UNO Synth directly to your computer via USB, you may hear more noise and interference than when the synth is connected to a USB wall charger or running via batteries. With the direct computer connection, you can reduce the USB ground noise and other interference by either using a USB isolator or a custom TRS cable into a balanced input on your preamp or audio interface where the ground is not connected at the balanced input side.
So its not a design fault, but IK know that the synth will be practically unusable without the special cable or noise isolator. So why not at least make that advice very prominent and offer to sell it at checkout ? Or provide it in the box and add 10 euros to the cost of the synth ? Or better still, include a noise isolator in the internal design.

I have had to spend time searching google to find a solution and could quite easily have given bad feedback because of ignorance about the issue. But now, with a two second install of a noise isolator, the synth sounds a huge amount better.

KVRian
878 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:33 am

This issue isn't limited to the UNO synth. All synths that use USB for power, and some that only use it for MIDI data also suffer from this problem. I generally avoid USB on all my hardware synths. UNO synth has regular MIDI ports that you can use, then use a phone charger to power it.

Another option is to manufacture a custom USB Y-split cable with the power pins going to a phone charger and the data pins to the computer.

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KVRist
86 posts since 11 Mar, 2021 from Romania

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:45 am

AdvancedFollower wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:33 am
This issue isn't limited to the UNO synth. All synths that use USB for power, and some that only use it for MIDI data also suffer from this problem.
Then either don't design it to use USB for power
or
AdvancedFollower wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:33 am
Another option is to manufacture a custom USB Y-split cable with the power pins going to a phone charger and the data pins to the computer.
Provide that cable in the box (as some manufacturers do) instead of leaving it to the customer to find and buy it.
The manufacturer should sell a device that's fully usable out of the box.

KVRAF
29984 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:03 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:18 pm
chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:00 am
Shouldn't this be the same with any audio interface then?
I imagine they include the isolator hardware within them, which no doubt adds to the cost.
Shouldn't be that costly if every 80 to 100 € audio interface doesn't produce noise.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
8249 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:06 am

Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:14 am
USB bus noise is not unique to nor a "design flaw" of UNO Synth, and we also cover this on the UNO Synth Specs page (with diagrams, to boot).
*USB power has inherent ground noise, so when connecting the UNO Synth directly to your computer via USB, you may hear more noise and interference than when the synth is connected to a USB wall charger or running via batteries. With the direct computer connection, you can reduce the USB ground noise and other interference by either using a USB isolator or a custom TRS cable into a balanced input on your preamp or audio interface where the ground is not connected at the balanced input side.
It's good info but a lot of people but these from shops/Amazon etc and will never see that page. As USB power has inherent ground noise its better to provide a better option for power (personally I just use mine with batteries and midi and avoid USB). I had more issue with the 'pro' as it only had micro USB power options so became a bit of a cabling nightmare for a small desktop synth...the Pro Desktop really needed a built in rechargeable battery to avoid 2 micro USB cables being needed on a small desktop synth. The UNOs have a great sound, its a pity the micro USB ports let them down.
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

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GRRRRRRR!
12579 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:37 pm

You're way over-thinking it. Just buy some balanced cables and any problems you're having will go away, just like magic.
dellboy wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:31 am
So its not a design fault, but IK know that the synth will be practically unusable without the special cable or noise isolator.
It's hardly a "special cable", every microphone needs one and, as I said, you can buy 'em from the supermarket or a petrol station, which is about the least "special" thing I can think of. It took me all of two minutes to sort it out with my Uno (because who doesn't have a spare mini stereo cable and headphones adapter lying around?). Since then I have made a more formal arrangement - mini-TRS at one end into a proper XLR at the other but the mini stereo cable worked fine.

Or, and this is by far the easiest fix, put some batteries in it and don't rely on USB. If you've used hardware for any length of time, you get used to having to fix these kinds of problems. They happen all the time.
digitallysane wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:45 am
The manufacturer should sell a device that's fully usable out of the box.
And they do but they can't anticipate every idiot. For the first 6 months I had my Uno, I experienced none of those problems. Then I changed my set-up around a bit and I've had to deal with it ever since. Same with my Uno Pro and even with my Elektron Analog Keys. I've never had a problem with my Rocket or any of my digital synths, though, but I'm sure I will at some point. It's inevitable.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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