Maschine or Akai

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
KVRAF
8263 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:12 am

The mpc is not realy a DJ Tool, it’s basically a pattern based midi sequencer and sampler. It samples, edits samples and plays back samples. It’s. An also record audio in a liniar way (so you can male a track using short chained patterns and then record a single vocal track over the top). It’s more of a DAW than. DJ tool in my opinion.
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

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KVRAF
3888 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:51 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:12 am
The mpc is not realy a DJ Tool, it’s basically a pattern based midi sequencer and sampler. It samples, edits samples and plays back samples. It’s. An also record audio in a liniar way (so you can male a track using short chained patterns and then record a single vocal track over the top). It’s more of a DAW than. DJ tool in my opinion.
I consider it a drum sampler and sequencer, with a few soft synths, and performance options thrown in for good measure. It's IMO going to be a good companion for Ableton Live in live situations.

Mostly I just like using it as a drum and other samples addition to a DAW, it works flawlessly for me as a hardware drum machine synced to DP10, Live, Reaper etc. and takes zero resources from the computer in sync mode. When it's time to finish the song you can even instantiate the VSTi and open up everything you did in stand alone in the DAW of your choice. No one seems to mention this, but a lot of full featured sequencers like MPC or Maschine suck up massive mounts of CPU as VSTi's and you can get around that pretty dammed easily with the MPC Live.

KVRAF
8263 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:22 am

Yeh, I would agree with all of that. Its a hardware sampler/sequencer to me, I am in my 50's so I am used to working with hardware samplers connected to a record player and that's what I continue to do.
I realise others record in to their computer for this but I like to be out of the box sometimes and the MPC is also great for sequencing my hardware synths (along with my Octotrack). I have a project studio and often have 4-5 people in my space, they cant all be on the main studio DAW, instruments help!

You could make an argument for any item of hardware being replaced by software, but I am happy my studio is full of hardware and not just a laptop on a desk, but as I said before, its whatever makes you happy, music should be fun!!
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

KVRAF
8263 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:25 am

telecode wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 pm
bmanic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 am
If you only use basic sample triggering and processing and some basic non-CPU intensive synths then a few generations old i5 will be plenty enough to make huge complex songs.

This is exactly what the MPC is built on. It has a very slow crappy CPU inside it, running Linux as the operating system. Thus it allows you a limited amount of polyphony for sample triggering and only offers very basic synthesizers coded by AIR Music Technology.. which also offers some synths on the PC and Mac platforms, all of them really CPU friendly.

The problem is that as soon as you get a "real" computer you expect much more from it than a standalone box, which is also a computer but sort of hidden. It's a weird psychology.
still looking into it. what i don't get about the MPC LIve is, is this thing a DJ tool?

I see it comparted to a Toriaz.

https://www.pioneerdj.com/en-us/product ... /overview/
Why not just download it and try it- the hardware does the same as the software version other than hosting VSTs

https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-software-2
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, DM12, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

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Banned
2290 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:49 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:25 am
telecode wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 pm
bmanic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 am
If you only use basic sample triggering and processing and some basic non-CPU intensive synths then a few generations old i5 will be plenty enough to make huge complex songs.

This is exactly what the MPC is built on. It has a very slow crappy CPU inside it, running Linux as the operating system. Thus it allows you a limited amount of polyphony for sample triggering and only offers very basic synthesizers coded by AIR Music Technology.. which also offers some synths on the PC and Mac platforms, all of them really CPU friendly.

The problem is that as soon as you get a "real" computer you expect much more from it than a standalone box, which is also a computer but sort of hidden. It's a weird psychology.
still looking into it. what i don't get about the MPC LIve is, is this thing a DJ tool?

I see it comparted to a Toriaz.

https://www.pioneerdj.com/en-us/product ... /overview/
Why not just download it and try it- the hardware does the same as the software version other than hosting VSTs

https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-software-2
thanks will try it. :tu:

My kid told me about the new Akai Force so I checked out the online stuff about it. The Force I am finding might be a bit of a toy item in that I can't see myself every moving to a product like that. But the MPC, maybe.

Goning off to checkout the discussions on the MPC forums as well.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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Banned
2290 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:52 pm

SLiC wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:25 am
telecode wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 pm
bmanic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 am
If you only use basic sample triggering and processing and some basic non-CPU intensive synths then a few generations old i5 will be plenty enough to make huge complex songs.

This is exactly what the MPC is built on. It has a very slow crappy CPU inside it, running Linux as the operating system. Thus it allows you a limited amount of polyphony for sample triggering and only offers very basic synthesizers coded by AIR Music Technology.. which also offers some synths on the PC and Mac platforms, all of them really CPU friendly.

The problem is that as soon as you get a "real" computer you expect much more from it than a standalone box, which is also a computer but sort of hidden. It's a weird psychology.
still looking into it. what i don't get about the MPC LIve is, is this thing a DJ tool?

I see it comparted to a Toriaz.

https://www.pioneerdj.com/en-us/product ... /overview/
Why not just download it and try it- the hardware does the same as the software version other than hosting VSTs

https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-software-2
i tried it. yup. it can do different time signatures and different bpm's per sequence in the same song. :tu:
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

KVRist
328 posts since 10 Mar, 2017

Post Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 am

The MPC is kind of a classic layout for the boombap generation. There's no getting around that. If you're sampling things live from vinyl and other sources, it's still probably one of the best ways to go about doing it, though in this day and age I would think you would still be sending whatever tracks you make out to a DAW of some sort.
Not sure if anyone suggested this, but Renoise is a pretty spectacular option if actually sampling and sample mangling is what you want to do. You can load wav files, or record a sample live into the software and from there basically every cool function of the software is designed to manipulate samples. You can render every performanc into another sample with lightening speed.
Trackers are an old school design, but Renoise has plenty of modern features and you can even Rewire it quite easily into other software. I always used Renoise, then after I hiatus from music switched to Reaper and now have begun using both and it's the best workflow I've ever had. Use Renoise for your beats and samples and Reaper, or some other traditional DAW for recording vocals and all your vst instruments.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Renoise + Reaper rules.

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KVRAF
2715 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Post Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:32 am

I just wanted to add a bit of personal experience with the Akai Force.

I'm 2+ weeks in and it's probably the best purchase I've done in a long long time. The brain is like an MPC Live/X but way more streamlined and optimised for a quick workflow. Basically it's like working on Live but without a computer. Recording tracks and MIDI is as easy as with Live. Just arm and record. Recording automation is easy - arm automation for the track, go to the page where the parameter is and record your movements.

The new Air effects are really decent and usable. Sure, it's no Valhalla/Strymon/Eventide - but a big step up from the previous generation.

I thought the Force would be an MPC Live with a different set of pads, a quick variation of their MPC line. And while the OS for the Live and Force shares lots of things, the Force feels like something else than the MPCs.

The workflow is just brilliant.

:clap:

/C
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KVRer
2 posts since 25 Apr, 2010

Post Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:25 am

gundam wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:48 am
if you want to say you can make music "everywhere", you have money to blow and music it is just a hobby, then get MPC.

If you want to finish music and would like to make music a career, then get Maschine.

Ableton drumracks, sampler and simpler is probably better than either of those options anyways. I bought Ableton 10 Suite here for $320, I would suggest that 1000xs over both of them

I have both, and I find the MPC software much less intuitive and the layout much less friendly than Maschine. MPC software looks like it was made in the 2000s. Also the Daw integration with maschine is so well done, that I have no use for any hardware and I just use my mouse for everything. No point in dragging a cheap piece of plastic.


Plus, 95% most Live recorded MPC/Maschine beats are straight garbage even before quantizing. Just work like most famous producers and create using MIDI. Case and point, you don't see that many videos of fire beats created "Live"

Instead of wasting time trying to not make boring ass live recorded beats on hardware, just learn to edit faster with a mouse.

IMO, unless you are rich, it is just stupid to spend $1k+ on a brick MPC, when you can get a student laptop, DAW, LOTS of software and a simple midi keyboard for the same price...and which can do 1,000X than the portable brick MPC

Just buy maschine 2 software on the 2nd hand market for $50. Good Luck
The MPC was and still is the backbone for hip-hop! And that is not to say that producers don't use other software, drum machines etc! If people want to spend their money that's their business! Who the F@%k are you to tell them otherwise? And get your facts straight first! GOOD LUCK!

KVRer
2 posts since 25 Apr, 2010

Post Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:34 am

bmanic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:32 am
Exactly. This is the 21st century for f**ks sake. Akai is so damn stuck in the 90s.
What type of music do you make? How are they stuck in the 90's even though they dominated the late 80"s all the way up(Fat Joe) to about 2010 ...Even though they laid the blueprint down for any drum sampler/software on the market! The funny thing, I see a lot of new hip-hop producers starting to produce in a way similar to an mpc .














;s

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KVRAF
9192 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:48 am

No offense to the hip-hop crowd but dude.. 99% of videos out there on youtube, of people "making beatzzzzzZ!!!", are literally of them triggering a few samples by pressing a few pads, then calling it a day. I have my fair share of experience with this crowd too and yeah.. I don't know, it's not exactly rocket science when it comes to the "beats".

Yes there are a few talented finger drummers but they are still just triggering a few samples.. something they could do with any other sampler + pad units out there. It's not the MPC workflow or any other magic words that make it popular. It was a fluke and became a fad, at least that's my opinion. Also it was Roger Linn who made the original innovations. He hasn't been working with AKAI for decades. Funnily enough that's when it all started going downhill fast and the best modern MPC's use custom firmware programmed by an enthusiast. So yeah, I don't have much confidence with AKAI. Still, I did give them a chance and bought the MPC Live "blind" as I got a good deal on one (to this day I can still sell it at no loss if I so choose).

I think a lot of people when they saw the MPC Live were hoping for a proper external studio centerpiece to control large collections of outboard gear. Heck the MPC X even comes with quite a few awesome CV ins and outs, hinting at that very philosophy.

I bought the MPC in hopes of it being great for performing live with myriad of genres of music, from experimental ambient stuff to glitchy weirdness to future classical (or whatever one can call classical music inspired stuff with modern electronic sounds), pretty much anything really. I'm not much into single genres. I also hoped I could use it as my main sequencer/sampler studio centerpiece but alas it's just way too limited for that at the moment.

There's just no way to look at this thing in any other way than objectively of what it is and what it is not capable of. It's about as simple as it can get considering it is after all a basic computer running Linux in a nice little battery powered box. It's truly frustrating that they didn't make the synthesis (of the sample engine) part more complex. It is _stupidly_ simplistic right now. Tons of unipolar modulation sources which makes absolutely no sense at all. Even today, with the latest update, you need to use a cumbersome workaround simply to flip the polarity of a sample or an audio track. That is pure madness considering how important polarity flip is for sample layering.

My main gripes are still in the workflow department. There are so many things AKAI could have done to improve basic things before starting to sell this thing. Basic workflow improvements that cut down on the amount of "clicks" you need to do to navigate and edit things.

Having said that, it is slowly being improved in this department. A few features at a time. We can already for instance directly edit samples from the sampling menu (yay! only took 2 years for that). We finally have properly done automation (and it's pretty well done now).

No multitimbral modes yet so no real studio centerpiece possibility but apparently that too is coming in the future 3.0 update. Also with proper disk streaming apparently, which will help.

Anyways, it IS getting better. I'm holding on to mine at least for version 3.0 software, then we'll see if it deserves to stay or gets sold. I do enjoy the hardware and have even started to accept the simplistic box for what it is. :shrug:
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

KVRian
1187 posts since 11 Jun, 2019

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:11 am

Has someone mentioned the Auto-Sampler already - and the MPC Community?

I use the MPC Software for Pre-Production and Sound Design and can't imagine living without it anymore. The Workflow is old school as it should be and helps you to focus on Results and not get lost in endless possibilities.

The Filter is worth mentioning, too.

MPC is about sampling. NI is about buying their products and there is always a different way to so achieve what their Software can so.

What i am missing is the possibilitie to copy and save pads between programms and varying samples on pads (possible in key-mode).

KVRer
1 posts since 3 Feb, 2021

Post Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:46 pm

gundam wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:05 am
SLiC wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:53 am
gundam wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:48 am
If you want to finish music and would like to make music a career, then get Maschine.
I think a lot of hiphop artists and studios would probably disagree with you.
Given the current state of the software, I am just giving specifc advise to the OP who is probably just sort of starting out.

Additionally, all those old boomer MPC hit made records relied on engineers, and lots of editing on pro tools, which again, not applicable to the OP

Most not boomer hip hop artists use mouse and ableton/fl studio nowadays. Just go on instagram

Ableton sampler and simpler is probably better than either of those options anyways.
I think studios would definitely agree with him. Can you even compare a product that has over 17.000€ of products, including one of the best Symphonic Orchestras and Solo Violins and Cellos available on the market, with MPC expansions? Not to mention all that's included on a Komplete 13 Ultimate Collectors Edition. For God sake man, wake up...

You beat makers just use expansions and that's the issue. If you could see the big picture, you would go for a Maschine and/or Komplete Kontrol + Komplete 13 Ultimate Collectors Edition and you would be able to produce for film scoring, video games and pretty much any genre. Like PRO's do.

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