Windows instead of Mac for near future ?

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sircuit
KVRian
806 posts since 15 Jul, 2016

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:40 am

Bitwig opens separate “helper” processes for plugins hosting. These are essentially a bridge. This way it can load 32 and 64 bit plugins, host them sandboxed etc. It makes total sense to be able to call native plugins with a native bridge and legacy plugins with a Rosetta-based bridge.
jamcat wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:18 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:44 pm
jamcat wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:08 pm
The biggest fallout from all of this is that M1 and Rosetta can't be mixed in your DAW. If you need to use ANY plugins that aren't M1 native, you will have to open your DAW using Rosetta, even if your DAW is M1 native itself.
Bitwig can run native and use Rosetta plugins.
Colour me skeptical. Where did you see this?
It looks like Cult of Bitwig nonsense to me.

TS-12
KVRian

Topic Starter

572 posts since 24 Apr, 2008 from USA

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:04 pm

wait, bitwig can run / bridge 32bit plugins even on apple m1 ??
win10 x64. cubase 10 x64.
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Passing Bye
KVRAF
3001 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:12 pm

No

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teilo
KVRian
1057 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:38 pm

TS-12 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:04 pm
wait, bitwig can run / bridge 32bit plugins even on apple m1 ??
It could back before Catalina, in x64. Not anymore, since Catalina and later are 64-bit only.

Gadget Fiend
KVRist
424 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Post Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:10 pm

chk071 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:16 am
True. It's a bit annoying, though, when you can't upgrade your 3 year old computer to Windows 11, just because its CPU is not on Microsoft's awesome list. Yes, you can circumvent that, but, I won't do it, because Microsoft already promised some other snares, like the inability to update unsupported computers. It's really not recommendable, especially when your computer still works fine with Windows 10.
I have a couple of first generation Intel NUC mini computers that are really tiny and totally silent. I use them as "Media Centers" connected to the TVs in my living room and bedroom. They are far more flexible than an Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV Stick. I built the NUCs in 2016 and planned to use them for literally the rest of my life. But now I'm stuck on Windows 10 until 2025 at which point I will no longer receive security updates. That blows. If a computer is powerful enough to run Windows 10 it can run Windows 11. Plus I like the look of Windows 11 better than Windows 10. It's mostly subtle changes like rounded corners on all Explorer windows and dialogs. And they have gotten rid of the stupid/useless/distracting "live tiles" in the redesigned Start Menu. I don't know if I would pay for these design changes. But if Windows 11 is a free upgrade, then why not? But again, that's not an option for me because of Microsofts ridiculous hardware requirements for Windows 11.
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Tronam
KVRAF
1921 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:05 pm

jamcat wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:18 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:44 pm
jamcat wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:08 pm
The biggest fallout from all of this is that M1 and Rosetta can't be mixed in your DAW. If you need to use ANY plugins that aren't M1 native, you will have to open your DAW using Rosetta, even if your DAW is M1 native itself.
Bitwig can run native and use Rosetta plugins.
Colour me skeptical. Where did you see this?
It looks like Cult of Bitwig nonsense to me.
Actually, any M1 native DAW can load x86 plugins using Apple's AU hosting bridge. The trick Bitwig can pull off, that most others can't, is also being able to load x86 VST plugins.

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Tronam
KVRAF
1921 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:26 pm

TS-12 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:08 am
Since Apple silicon introduction, not much of music software is compatible yet. And Apple Intel will slowly be getting phased out.
So for someone getting a new computer especially laptop, will getting windows be a better choice ?
Because:
1) getting Apple silicon MacBook is not good a idea YET because of software incompatibility.
2) getting Intel based MacBook for heavier use is not good idea either because of thermal throttling, cpu bottlenecking ( or whatever it’s called ) etc.
so is windows a smarter choice for new computer ?
If I was heavily invested in the Windows/PC world (as I used to be for many years) I'd probably avoid the Mac right now, at least until the M1 transition is over and the dust has settled. Especially if I was a Cubase user, since Steinberg still hasn't provided a timeline for native compatibility. For those of us already in the ecosystem and committed to riding it out, we've accepted that this is a work-in-progress experience. The hardware is great, but the software is still in flux. Then again, if you check this list and find that most of the DAWs and plugins you want to use are listed, then the experience should be reliably smooth. Otherwise it's a lot of money to spend on a bucket of question marks.

gaggle of hermits
KVRist
300 posts since 18 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:39 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:10 pm
I built the NUCs in 2016 and planned to use them for literally the rest of my life. But now I'm stuck on Windows 10 until 2025 at which point I will no longer receive security updates. That blows. If a computer is powerful enough to run Windows 10 it can run Windows 11. Plus I like the look of Windows 11 better than Windows 10.
have you heard the word of our lord and saviour Linux?

seriously, if the world of linux was a bit less like a herd of cats, this is where it could make serious inroads into both windows and os x in the consumer space. the average NAS (many of which can now work as media centres) runs linux. the job of configuring linux distros is getting less painful though it still needs a lot of work and isn't helped by the way that Netflix etc don't have native support.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12590 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:59 pm

The problem with Linux isn't Linux, it's the dearth of compatible applications. I don't care what OS I run, what I care about is how well my applications run. I choose my applications and then find the OS that best supports them. To choose your OS first is totally arse-backwards, like choosing which car to buy based on what tools you own (metric or imperial).
TS-12 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:08 am
1) getting Apple silicon MacBook is not good a idea YET because of software incompatibility.
2) getting Intel based MacBook for heavier use is not good idea either because of thermal throttling, cpu bottlenecking ( or whatever it’s called ) etc.
so is windows a smarter choice for new computer ?
There are many valid reasons to choose a Windows PC over a Mac but neither of those you have given are. From what I've heard, Rosetta does a great job of translating non-native code, for almost no CPU overheard and, AFAIK, thermal throttling is no more of an issue with a MB Pro than it would be with a lot of PC laptops. Now, if you'd like a list of valid reasons to switch, I am more than happy to provide a long one.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12590 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:55 am
Apple ecosystem is for folks who are willing to left behind old tech from time to time and embrace changes much faster.
That would explain why Mac was at Version 10 for 19 years. It got so embarrassing for them they changed the name of the OS to make it seem like it wasn't the same old shit it had always been, minus a lot of stuff you may once have relied upon. And don't even ask me how version 10.15 can be 18 years newer than version 10.2, but it is.
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Passing Bye
KVRAF
3001 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:57 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 pm
Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:55 am
Apple ecosystem is for folks who are willing to left behind old tech from time to time and embrace changes much faster.
That would explain why Mac was at Version 10 for 19 years. It got so embarrassing for them they changed the name of the OS to make it seem like it wasn't the same old shit it had always been, minus a lot of stuff you may once have relied upon. And don't even ask me how version 10.15 can be 18 years newer than version 10.2, but it is.
Windows, macOS, Linux, it's same shit with different themes last 20 years, snail pace improvement on idea, but why would they need to change OS entirely, people got freaked out when they changed Start button behaviour in Win8, so they deserve to be sold same OS with slight improvements every year or few years.
Last edited by Passing Bye on Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

rezoneight
KVRian
624 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:22 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 pm
And don't even ask me how version 10.15 can be 18 years newer than version 10.2, but it is.
One only need to go look at the wikipedia article on Mac OS releases if one doesn't know. Its very simple: they didn't do yearly releases until 10.7. Your ignorance, and the desire to display it in public, is pretty impressive.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20513 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:52 am

Tronam wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:26 pm
The hardware is great, but the software is still in flux. Then again, if you check this list and find that most of the DAWs and plugins you want to use are listed, then the experience should be reliably smooth. Otherwise it's a lot of money to spend on a bucket of question marks.
Besides some VST plugins, all the software I use has been Apple Silicon native for a while now. The Affinity Suite, Capture One, Sublime, Transmit, Bitwig, etc., etc. I have a handful of apps I never use that have not updated and so this becomes a good opportunity to clean house.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
11401 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:07 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:55 am
pdxindy wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:23 am
TS-12 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:04 am
Was thinking of getting a MacBook but new ones are with apple’s own arm M1 silicon chip, for which most software is incompatible
Most software is compatible now.
Agree, but he will always find something that isn't that will break his world apart, better for him to just continue to use Windows, Apple ecosystem is for folks who are willing to left behind old tech from time to time and embrace changes much faster.
^This.

20 years ago (TWENTY!?) I’d have said I’d never use a Windows machine. I was a full on Apple evangelist. I remained that way until the move to Intel. Many developers took a really long time to write Apple Intel compatible software. I’d just purchased a G5, which frankly was one of the best computers I ever owned. Sure it sounded like a blow-dryer but that thing was fast. But then I saw that more and more music software was coming out for Windows only, and one of the things I really wanted to use was the Möbius looper, so I bought a Toshiba laptop to run it. Slowly over time I realized that Windows is fine and much more backwards compatible than Apple ever is. Whenever I hear some hardware dude complaining about abandonware, it’s usually about software written for the Apple OS. Also, Apple basically abandoned tower style computers with PCIe and space for additional drives and whatnot. I guess you could buy their cheese grater model, but it’s stupid expensive. So I went for off-the-shelf Dells for a long time. Never really had an issue. I had a custom PC built for me over the summer and I couldn’t be happier. I think Apple is great for iPads (I’m typing on one now) and iPhones, and maybe even laptops for business stuff, but I’m done with them for making music.
Zerocrossing Media

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jancivil
KVRAF
23343 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:38 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 pm
Passing Bye wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:55 am
Apple ecosystem is for folks who are willing to left behind old tech from time to time and embrace changes much faster.
That would explain why Mac was at Version 10 for 19 years. It got so embarrassing for them they changed the name of the OS to make it seem like it wasn't the same old shit it had always been, minus a lot of stuff you may once have relied upon. And don't even ask me how version 10.15 can be 18 years newer than version 10.2, but it is.
this is literally one of the stupider gestures I've seen on the subject. You're taking a number, 10, leaving off all the increments between ".2" and ".15" deliberately to make a diss (or you're just dense). Is being scrupulous at all quite beyond you, or are you constitutionally incapable of checking? EG: "OSX.15" has seven versions. So is the story supposed to be Apple updates far too frequently or far too infrequently, then? Incoherent. You've asserted both of these in this thread!

Who would ask you anything about anything, you're unable to think really simple things through like COUNTING. :lol:
But you're the one intelligent person here in your legend. One who cannot consider maybe the Mac at your day job is poorly maintained and obsolete, but this is alway central to your bogus story.

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