"f(x)=1-x" modification in Diva
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- KVRist
- 431 posts since 27 Sep, 2005
Can't find a way how I can to "revert" (not invert, that is "f(x)=-x") unipolar modulation source in Diva, so it will be "f(x)=1-x". For example, I want LFO1 to decrease its amplitude with KeyFollow, so higher notes will have less modulation. Tryed to combine several modifications (Invert, Add, Sub, etc), but still can't get what I need. Please help.
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
Hi,
there's a way to sort-of do that, or get close to that (not sure if there's a more elegant way though).
KeyFollow is a bipolar source pivoting around the middle E. Negative values to the left of it, positive values to the right.
What you can achieve in Diva is you can cancel out values to the left or right of that middle E, so that either below or above middle E you send "zero" amount to your target.
To do that, add KeyFollow to a rectified version of itself. "Rectify" will turn negative values to positive values. If you add KeyFollow to a rectified version of itself, then below middle E, the negative and positive values will cancel each other out to zero, leaving only the added positive values above middle E.
In your case you'd want the opposite of that, you want only values below middle E, so invert the rectified KeyFollow first before you add it to the original KeyFollow. Then set "Add" as the source for the LFOs Depth Mod and turn it all the way up.
Now you have LFO action below middle E, and none above middle E.
To sum up:
In Rectify set KeyFollow.
In Invert set Rectify.
In Add set Invert + KeyFollow.
In LFO Depth Mod set Add.
Turn up Depth Mod.
If there's a more elegant way that anyone can think of, let me know!
Viktor
u-he team
there's a way to sort-of do that, or get close to that (not sure if there's a more elegant way though).
KeyFollow is a bipolar source pivoting around the middle E. Negative values to the left of it, positive values to the right.
What you can achieve in Diva is you can cancel out values to the left or right of that middle E, so that either below or above middle E you send "zero" amount to your target.
To do that, add KeyFollow to a rectified version of itself. "Rectify" will turn negative values to positive values. If you add KeyFollow to a rectified version of itself, then below middle E, the negative and positive values will cancel each other out to zero, leaving only the added positive values above middle E.
In your case you'd want the opposite of that, you want only values below middle E, so invert the rectified KeyFollow first before you add it to the original KeyFollow. Then set "Add" as the source for the LFOs Depth Mod and turn it all the way up.
Now you have LFO action below middle E, and none above middle E.
To sum up:
In Rectify set KeyFollow.
In Invert set Rectify.
In Add set Invert + KeyFollow.
In LFO Depth Mod set Add.
Turn up Depth Mod.
If there's a more elegant way that anyone can think of, let me know!
Viktor
u-he team
Last edited by Viktor [TUC] on Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
One other possibility comes to mind.
Since KeyFollow pivots around middle E, it might suffice for your needs to simple move that pivot point up the keyboard to a point where you know you're unlikely to play much above that note. Then when playing low to high notes, your modulation amount would decrease down to zero until you reach that new pivot note high up. Above that note though, mod amount would start increasing again, of course.
To do that, first invert KeyFollow so that it goes from high to low values (when playing from left to right on the keyboard).
Since Diva doesn't have a "Constant" value that you could simply add via the Add function, you need to substitute it with something else that doesn't change when you play. For that you can use the Voice Map Modulators on the Trimmers page. Look at how many voices your patch is set to, then set that amount of Voice Map Modulator knobs to the same fixed value. Try a value of 50 to begin with. If you have a 4 voice polyphonic patch, set the first 4 knobs to 50.
Now in Add, set Invert + VoiceMap. Now the inverted Keyfollow is pushed "up" by a constant value, effectively moving the pivot note further right on the keyboard. If you need it even further to the right, raise the values of the Voice Map Modulator knobs.
Now you could use Add as your mod source in the LFO's Depth Amount.
This might actually be closer to what you need.
Viktor
u-he team
Since KeyFollow pivots around middle E, it might suffice for your needs to simple move that pivot point up the keyboard to a point where you know you're unlikely to play much above that note. Then when playing low to high notes, your modulation amount would decrease down to zero until you reach that new pivot note high up. Above that note though, mod amount would start increasing again, of course.
To do that, first invert KeyFollow so that it goes from high to low values (when playing from left to right on the keyboard).
Since Diva doesn't have a "Constant" value that you could simply add via the Add function, you need to substitute it with something else that doesn't change when you play. For that you can use the Voice Map Modulators on the Trimmers page. Look at how many voices your patch is set to, then set that amount of Voice Map Modulator knobs to the same fixed value. Try a value of 50 to begin with. If you have a 4 voice polyphonic patch, set the first 4 knobs to 50.
Now in Add, set Invert + VoiceMap. Now the inverted Keyfollow is pushed "up" by a constant value, effectively moving the pivot note further right on the keyboard. If you need it even further to the right, raise the values of the Voice Map Modulator knobs.
Now you could use Add as your mod source in the LFO's Depth Amount.
This might actually be closer to what you need.
Viktor
u-he team
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 431 posts since 27 Sep, 2005
Hi Victor,
Thank you for your answer. I meant a bit different, LFO depth should be higher on low notes and lower on high notes (not none).
But ok, from your answer I get that KeyFollow is bipolar, so just a simple Invert should give me what I want.
So I:
In Invert set Keyfollow;
In LFO Depth Mod set Invert;
Turn up Depth Mod.
But it works quite strange, depth on high notes is about the same, but is lower on low notes, as if Invert didn't work.
Thank you for your answer. I meant a bit different, LFO depth should be higher on low notes and lower on high notes (not none).
But ok, from your answer I get that KeyFollow is bipolar, so just a simple Invert should give me what I want.
So I:
In Invert set Keyfollow;
In LFO Depth Mod set Invert;
Turn up Depth Mod.
But it works quite strange, depth on high notes is about the same, but is lower on low notes, as if Invert didn't work.
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
Hi,
yes, LFO Depth higher on low notes and lower on high notes, that's what I described.
A simple invert on KeyFollow does not work. Negative KeyFollow amount is still an amount and will cause modulation, just in the opposite direction. It's not zero.
My first post describes how to get higher depth on low notes, but zero depth on notes above middle E.
My second post though describes a different approach that will get you closer to what you were asking about.
See if you can make it work. I can also post example patches later.
yes, LFO Depth higher on low notes and lower on high notes, that's what I described.
A simple invert on KeyFollow does not work. Negative KeyFollow amount is still an amount and will cause modulation, just in the opposite direction. It's not zero.
My first post describes how to get higher depth on low notes, but zero depth on notes above middle E.
My second post though describes a different approach that will get you closer to what you were asking about.
See if you can make it work. I can also post example patches later.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 431 posts since 27 Sep, 2005
Thank you again, Viktor.
I would be perfectly fine with inverted Keywollow causing modulation in the opposite direction. But it doesnt work. It looks like "Invert" does nothing with Keyfollow now.
I tried your second approach, and it still doesn't work properly. Again, it still looks like "Invert" has no effect on "Keyfollow".
I would be perfectly fine with inverted Keywollow causing modulation in the opposite direction. But it doesnt work. It looks like "Invert" does nothing with Keyfollow now.
I tried your second approach, and it still doesn't work properly. Again, it still looks like "Invert" has no effect on "Keyfollow".
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
Could you post a patch to demonstrate how you've set things up?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 431 posts since 27 Sep, 2005
Sure. Here is the patch with simple Invert Keyfollow LFO Mod attempt. It sounds close (identical?) to just Keyfollow LFO Mod, without Invert.The unshushable Coktor wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:19 am Could you post a patch to demonstrate how you've set things up?
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
Thanks. Yes, in your preset, that will sound almost identical to "without invert". You're inverting the direction of the LFO's oscillations here, so instead of going quickly down-up-down-up, it just goes up-down-up-down.
I've explained all the necessary steps above though, you'd just need to follow them step by step.
I'll post an example patch soon.
I've explained all the necessary steps above though, you'd just need to follow them step by step.
I'll post an example patch soon.
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- KVRian
- 814 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
Easy fix: In your preset, the Add function isn't influencing anything yet, but it's the Add's output that we actually need.
Change the LFO1 Depth Mod source to Add, then on the Trimmers page reduce the Voice Map Mod amounts to 50 or lower, maybe 40.
Change the LFO1 Depth Mod source to Add, then on the Trimmers page reduce the Voice Map Mod amounts to 50 or lower, maybe 40.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 431 posts since 27 Sep, 2005
Thank you Viktor,
Now I understand it better. Yes, after I properly set Voice Map Mod, it works as expected (I set these values too high previously).
A bit sad that I need to spend Invert, Add and Voice Map Mod for this simple thing, so I can't use them for other things, but it's ok.
Just a side note: I ignored Diva for so many years. I always was (and am) a fan of Zebra. I appreciated the nice sound of Diva when she was releazed, but thought, why I need it if I have Zebra. Yes, in Zebra I need to make additional efforts to make it sound less sterile, with some character, but I still can do it and Zebra has much wider sound palette. This is how I thought. Then I purchased also Hive just after release, as it had some character. And it is a great synth too, especially now with wavetables and so great modulation matrix.
But now I tryed Diva. Just to taste it a bit. And I am fully blown by her sound. I don't need to use various tricks, she already sounds great. But the most important discovery was audiorate modulation. It adds so many so great character! This is the very underrated thing, Urs often said that this thing doesn't worth implementation, say, in Zebra because of higher CPU load. But in Diva I quickly designed a lot of extremely characterful presets, using audiorate modulations, which (I mean sounds) I tryed to get in Hive and Zebra without great success.
I really hope that Zebra 3 wil have audiorate modulations. At least as an option, so you can disable it if you don't need it.
As for Diva, I certainly will buy it soon.
(I know there is Bazille which embraces audiorate modulations, but I don't like classical modular conception with messing wires, Zebra is much more convinient)
Now I understand it better. Yes, after I properly set Voice Map Mod, it works as expected (I set these values too high previously).
A bit sad that I need to spend Invert, Add and Voice Map Mod for this simple thing, so I can't use them for other things, but it's ok.
Just a side note: I ignored Diva for so many years. I always was (and am) a fan of Zebra. I appreciated the nice sound of Diva when she was releazed, but thought, why I need it if I have Zebra. Yes, in Zebra I need to make additional efforts to make it sound less sterile, with some character, but I still can do it and Zebra has much wider sound palette. This is how I thought. Then I purchased also Hive just after release, as it had some character. And it is a great synth too, especially now with wavetables and so great modulation matrix.
But now I tryed Diva. Just to taste it a bit. And I am fully blown by her sound. I don't need to use various tricks, she already sounds great. But the most important discovery was audiorate modulation. It adds so many so great character! This is the very underrated thing, Urs often said that this thing doesn't worth implementation, say, in Zebra because of higher CPU load. But in Diva I quickly designed a lot of extremely characterful presets, using audiorate modulations, which (I mean sounds) I tryed to get in Hive and Zebra without great success.
I really hope that Zebra 3 wil have audiorate modulations. At least as an option, so you can disable it if you don't need it.
As for Diva, I certainly will buy it soon.
(I know there is Bazille which embraces audiorate modulations, but I don't like classical modular conception with messing wires, Zebra is much more convinient)