Spectrasonics build up to Sonic Extensions....

[zimmerabc]

What do you expect from omni v3? I'm fine with ultra realistic instruments / ultra realististic unknown instruments delivered via sonic extensions.

[Lati]

There's lots of stuff that could be improved, but definitely my biggest gripe would be lack of multisampling.

Spectrasonics state in the Omnisphere manual:"Remember, Omnisphere is not a sampler, is a synthesizer. The objective is not to play multi-sampled instruments like a sampler, but to be creative in transforming your own audio."

But this is exactly what they do themselves. And not giving the opportunity to users and 3rd party sound designers is such a waste, and now with these overpriced "sonic extensions" it feels even more intentional crippling of the software.

[Tj Shredder]

But if you want exactly that, Omnisphere isn’t made for that purpose. Halion would be, or Falcon, even Kontakt. They all have enough synth power under the hood to get what Omnisphere is delivering. The hurdle is to learn those complex beasts…
Spectrasonics business model is to sell sound packs, not synths/samplers which could compete with their own sound design… They get you hooked and hope you don’t bother making your own sounds… Which is probably true for the majority of their users anyway…

[noiseboyuk]

But if you want exactly that, Omnisphere isn’t made for that purpose. Halion would be, or Falcon, even Kontakt. They all have enough synth power under the hood to get what Omnisphere is delivering. The hurdle is to learn those complex beasts…
Spectrasonics business model is to sell sound packs, not synths/samplers which could compete with their own sound design… They get you hooked and hope you don’t bother making your own sounds… Which is probably true for the majority of their users anyway…

Yup, I too strongly doubt we'll see Omni ever become a full-blown sampler.

You've conflated several issues there though. Of course users and do regularly make their own sounds, and the third party scene is enormous at this point. It's just the specifics of actual user or third party full-blown sample libraries, as opposed to synth sounds. Even Spectrasonics' own internal sampler tools - improved though they are - are far short of a sampler like Kontakt, so I'm personally not fussed at all about this, I'm not really interested in Omni trying rival those others.

[Dirk Diggler]

Well if I recall we can now add 4 samples per channel/track.
I guess 4 is actually multi, and it's double what it started out to be.
If you're really tricky you can use 4 samples per channel and end up with 32 samples per multi.

[Tj Shredder]

If you're really tricky you can use 4 samples per channel and end up with 32 samples per multi.

But why bother if you need to get tricky to achieve something other tools are better suited for?

[MTorn]

If you're really tricky you can use 4 samples per channel and end up with 32 samples per multi.

But why bother if you need to get tricky to achieve something other tools are better suited for?

That's the thing though, for making your own small-mid sized multisampled instruments, the Behemoth Three (Kontakt, Halion, Falcon) really aren't very well suited. They are huge, cumbersome, and not all that much fun to use (in fairness, I can't speak for Falcon, since they don't offer a demo).
They may not have started out that way, but as they are, they are really mostly developer tools for making commercial libraries.

And that's not mentioning the money - throwing around another $350 for one of these isn't something everyone wants to do, particularly not those who already spent that much on Omnisphere.

There's nothing wrong with wishing that Omnisphere 3 would add the ability to produce your own multisamples, and hopefully in a more accessible fun way than our current options.
The built-in samplers in Logic and Live and Reason are quite serviceable, but not an option if you need to be able to use your library in multiple DAWs.

[gaggle of hermits]

you don't need a behemoth. other multi-sampling engines are available - tx16wx works perfectly well and the free version is pretty flexible, so you might not even need the paid upgrade. not forgetting sfz and sforzando (though I can't remember whether you need to be handy with a text editor for that one still).

there's also new sonic arts' nuance for mo' money but not leviathan money.

[MTorn]

you don't need a behemoth. other multi-sampling engines are available - tx16w works perfectly well and the free version is pretty flexible, so you might not even need the paid upgrade. not forgetting sfz and sforzando (though I can't remember whether you need to be handy with a text editor for that one still).

there's also new sonic arts' nuance for mo' money but not leviathan money.

Yeah, I've tried them all, I think. TX16WX probably 4-5 times, but each time I've found it too clunky, cryptic, and crashy. Nuance and Bliss are both too simplified and have tons of usage blind spots. TAL Sampler is sonically nice, but the keymap editor and file system are cumbersome, and being very vintage-y it has none of the "advanced" things like round robins. Structure 2 seems ancient - I haven't tried it but I might yet give that a look.

At the moment I'm coding SFZs by hand, but I use the newer Sfizz instead of Sforzando.
It's extremely capable in most respects, but you inevitably miss out on any knob-twiddling creativity.

I think that for myself, all I'm asking for is the functionality of the NN-XT sampler, introduced in Reason in 2002, without having to use the Reason ecosystem.

[Biome_Digital]

If you're really tricky you can use 4 samples per channel and end up with 32 samples per multi.

But why bother if you need to get tricky to achieve something other tools are better suited for?

That's the thing though, for making your own small-mid sized multisampled instruments, the Behemoth Three (Kontakt, Halion, Falcon) really aren't very well suited. They are huge, cumbersome, and not all that much fun to use (in fairness, I can't speak for Falcon, since they don't offer a demo).
They may not have started out that way, but as they are, they are really mostly developer tools for making commercial libraries.

And that's not mentioning the money - throwing around another $350 for one of these isn't something everyone wants to do, particularly not those who already spent that much on Omnisphere.

There's nothing wrong with wishing that Omnisphere 3 would add the ability to produce your own multisamples, and hopefully in a more accessible fun way than our current options.
The built-in samplers in Logic and Live and Reason are quite serviceable, but not an option if you need to be able to use your library in multiple DAWs.

I have Omnisphere, Kontakt, Halion, and Falcon. Falcon is in no way as cumbersome as Kontakt or Halion. I don't really class Omnisphere as the same type of instrument as the others. I see it more a synth.
Kontakt and Halion as "samplers" (sample players!), and Falcon as a cross between the 2.

[MTorn]

I have Omnisphere, Kontakt, Halion, and Falcon. Falcon is in no way as cumbersome as Kontakt or Halion. I don't really class Omnisphere as the same type of instrument as the others. I see it more a synth.
Kontakt and Halion as "samplers" (sample players!), and Falcon as a cross between the 2.
[/quote]

That encourages me to give Falcon another look!
While I have you on the hook (and at the risk of hijacking the thread), there's one thing about Falcon that I can't find an answer to anywhere, maybe you can help:

I assume that Falcon will recognize root note data embedded in the header a WAV when importing it. But does it recognize TUNING data (when present)? I have thousands of WAVs carefully tuned by ear, but remarkably few samplers will read it from the WAV header, requiring me to tune them all over again in whatever sampler I choose.
Help with this would be enormously helpful!

And back to the Omnisphere topic now.

[Biome_Digital]

I have Omnisphere, Kontakt, Halion, and Falcon. Falcon is in no way as cumbersome as Kontakt or Halion. I don't really class Omnisphere as the same type of instrument as the others. I see it more a synth.
Kontakt and Halion as "samplers" (sample players!), and Falcon as a cross between the 2.

That encourages me to give Falcon another look!
While I have you on the hook (and at the risk of hijacking the thread), there's one thing about Falcon that I can't find an answer to anywhere, maybe you can help:

I assume that Falcon will recognize root note data embedded in the header a WAV when importing it. But does it recognize TUNING data (when present)? I have thousands of WAVs carefully tuned by ear, but remarkably few samplers will read it from the WAV header, requiring me to tune them all over again in whatever sampler I choose.
Help with this would be enormously helpful!

And back to the Omnisphere topic now.
[/quote]

Definitely a good question, but for UVI support as I have no idea, sorry.

[MTorn]

Definitely a good question, but for UVI support as I have no idea, sorry.

I was hoping somebody could load up a tuned WAV into their copy of Falcon and see what happens.
But you're right, I should probably just get in touch with UVI to see what they say.

[danbroad]

Well I caved and bought Undercurrent, Unclean Machine and Nylon Sky. As expected, they sound great, and I'm having a blast making up new multis and using the various new verbs etc with existing stuff. I've never really categorised Omni as a synth or a sampler, I've always just seen it as a great sounding source of playing fun. I use stack mode a great deal these days, with a workflow similar to my old workstation hardware, layers/splits and so on.
If anything, Omni v3 could just tidy up the interface a bit - I'm often stripping FX per part and replacing with the aux busses in a multi - and when there are multiple component patches that's a lot of mouse work.

[noiseboyuk]

If anything, Omni v3 could just tidy up the interface a bit - I'm often stripping FX per part and replacing with the aux busses in a multi - and when there are multiple component patches that's a lot of mouse work.

That's an interesting idea. We can copy layers, would be cool to be able to copy strips of effects.

In fact, double cool would be to right click cut / copy / paste on any of the tabs - Orb, Main, A, B, C, D, FX and Arp, then also Aux, A, B, C, D, Common in the effects section. Maybe also FM, RM, WS, Uni, Harm, Grn. I did wonder about dragging and dropping with a modifier, but I like that with a right click you can go between other patches and indeed the multi.

EDIT - very common to have a bunch of effects in Common and decide you want it just on a Part, or vice versa. That would be a great workflow.