How many of you use Studio One 5's Show Page?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Are you using Show Page?

I use it!
3
4%
I checked it out, but it's not for me
22
27%
Never even bothered to see what it's all about...
56
69%
 
Total votes: 81

Psalmist91
KVRer
8 posts since 24 Sep, 2013 from California

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:00 am

[/quote]
I don't use the Show Page not because it's not good, but because MainStage is just a better featured more powerful product at the moment. Though I do think the way you can move through songs in Show Page is quite nice compared to MainStage. MainStage has years of development though so its unfair to expect S1 to be there already.

Ableton/Bitwig requires way too much setup and tinkering etc if all you want to do is play a couple of backing tracks with some keyboard splits and preset changes etc. That's super easy to do in the Show Page without having to learn anything new in the DAW.
[/quote]

[/quote]
While Bones response was not very nice he’s absolutely right in one thing. People here have a very myopic view of what music production or music in live performance means. Not everyone is into clip launching or clip based production. Some just need backing tracks for Live work and easy patch management. One of Presonus biggest markets is providing tools for house of worship. The Show Page is super useful and perfect in that context. Live/Bitwig does not do well in a lot these type of scenarios.

Like I said the Show Page was made to compete directly with Mainstage and that is a very popular tool for live keyboardists in bands etc. There is no real alternative to Mainstage as far as I’m aware least of all on Windows. Presonus is finding a niche/need that hasn’t really been addressed in terms of competition before. Their goal doesn’t seem to be to become the next Ableton/Bitwig.
[/quote]


Weighing in here:
I spent a lot of time on the SHOW page this week for worship services at church using supplemental multitracks. While not perfect, I think that Presonus is actually REALLY onto something here that can be great and fit a large niche. There are thousands of churches and live bands for whom this unique feature set could be gold!

Compared to Mainstage -- Mainstage is set up for playing live instruments. It's outstanding for this; includes all of Logic's sounds and runs AU FX and Instruments effectively with a traditional mixer, and has enormous visual customization. However, it's track(s) and click feature are rudimentary at best. And it's Mac-only.

Compared to Gig Performer (which I haven't used). Gig Performer is like a non-linear (non-standard mixer) competitor to Mainstage. But again, no tracks. It's strictly for live play.

Compared to Logic -- Logic just added live clips to compete with that aspect of LIVE.

Compared to LIVE -- Live is still king, but at a cost. Session view rules for those wanting clip-based solutions (or has ruled until Logic 10.5). But it seems to be like 2 apps in 1, rather than things programmed in Arrangement view to then be simply played or accessed in Session View. It was quite a downer to recognize the level of Live's lack of integration. But, LIVE seems to have made its reputation by combining 4 things: 1. Clip Launching (emulated now by Logic). 2. Live play of real instruments (part of Mainstage and Gig Perfomer; now added into Studio One SHOW page -- for both real and virtual instruments; 3. playback of pre-recorded tracks (also added to S1 SHOW. 4. Able to control all kinds of other MIDI devices (and in a church or venue context: lighting controllers, Pro Presenter Slides, sound effects, etc.)

So, S1 SHOW page can currently do 2 of the 4 features of Live, and do them much simply.
For those who don't need all the features of LIVE, S1 SHOW page has a much friendlier entry. And the integration between the Arranger and the SHOW page seems to be much more intuitive and easy (at least to me).

Soon, I plan to test it using a combination of keyboard live play (as I use Mainstage via Sunday Keys) AND running Tracks -- to see if my MBP can handle both feature sets. If so, we have a winner and I can avoid having to learn LIVE for a bit longer.

So, here's one lone voice hoping that Presonus will beef up this aspect of the program and that thousands will start using it!

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antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

11185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:47 am

Thanks for the above comment! Great to hear real-life experience of someone using it :hug:
Psalmist91 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:00 am
Compared to LIVE -- Live is still king...
I always wondered - does that really happen? Do they have church services where someone's using e.g. a Push2 to control the music? That'd be so cool! :hyper:
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deskew
KVRer
29 posts since 24 Mar, 2014

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:41 am

Psalmist91 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:00 am
Compared to Gig Performer (which I haven't used). Gig Performer is like a non-linear (non-standard mixer) competitor to Mainstage. But again, no tracks. It's strictly for live play.
Just correcting the record here.

Gig Performer has an audio file player plugin that supports 8 tracks (wav, aif, flac, mp3, etc) that can be played individually or in combination and looped. And since it's implemented as a plugin, you can just create more instances if you need more than 8 tracks. (No time stretching yet)

Gig Performer has a MIDI file player plugin that can load up to 128 SMF songs and you can mute or re-channelize individual tracks (format 1 files) of each song and route them to different plugins.

You can't record your audio or MIDI tracks inside Gig Performer but if you're wanting to use your own, then you can of course just export such files from your DAW. By the way, you can get really sneaky with MIDI files since you can create tracks with MIDI messages that can control other aspects of Gig Performer itself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "non-linear" and "non-standard mixer" but if you're talking about GP's visual routing of plugins as an alternative paradigm to channel strips, you'll find that in fact it's much easier to do routing (including traditional inserts and sends and combinations) as you don't have to be concerned with aux channels, bus channels, etc. One of our guitar users provided a very nice example of this on our blog (https://gigperformer.com/gig-performer- ... strip-way/)


(Disclaimer, I'm one of the GP developers)

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rodanmusic
KVRist
163 posts since 13 Jan, 2015 from SLC, UT

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:49 pm

Absolutely useless to me.

Wish they'd let me completely hide it as well.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20891 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:56 pm

64-3 - obviously not many people are using the Show page

ls1xxx
KVRist
345 posts since 26 Sep, 2009

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:04 pm
I think that makes it more important than ever, so we are all ready to get out there when live performances resume next year (after the vaccine has been widely distributed).
boark wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:35 pm
I would have preferred something that is more suited to nonlinear music creation than for use in a live show.
You mean like scratch pads? They are already there. Or you can use the timeline and turn on the option of having the loop follow your current selection - right-click on the loop icon in the transport bar (I changed the hotkey and I can't remember what the original was). Doing that makes it work exactly like a pattern-based workflow. It's a really cool feature I only discovered recently (thank you, Gregor).
Can you please send a link regarding the loop trick thingy gregor is talking about please?

wuworld
KVRist
193 posts since 7 Nov, 2009 from DC

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:32 am

The Presonus staff wanted the show page. They are musicians so they wanted something for themselves. Was an interview when 5.0 dropped with presonus software employees. Until they tie to modern day music production, I'm not sure it will catch on.

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antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

11185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:38 am

rodanmusic wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:49 pm
Wish they'd let me completely hide it as well.
Definitely! Especially because those f**g buttons that I never use prevent me from seeing controller parameters when working on a small screen / high scaling factor :tantrum:

Upvote my request here if you haven't :)
https://answers.presonus.com/69526/let- ... 526#q69526

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antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

11185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am

ls1xxx wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 am
Can you please send a link regarding the loop trick thingy gregor is talking about please?
It's not a trick. It's an option you can toggle:
- by right-clicking the play button at the bottom
- by keyboard shortcut (def. is Ctrl+Alt+P)

But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12726 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:43 pm

ls1xxx wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 am
Can you please send a link regarding the loop trick thingy gregor is talking about please?
I just told you how - right-click on the LOOP icon in the transport section (first image) and select "Loop follows selection" from the menu. Of course, you have to have the loop active for it to work - double-click on it above the timeline and it turns blue to indicate it's on (second image).

LOOP2.png

LOOP.png

And yes, this seemed like less work than finding the video on YT.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12726 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:52 pm

wuworld wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:32 am
Until they tie to modern day music production, I'm not sure it will catch on.
WTF does that mean? I'm sure what you mean is "boring dance shit", rather than "modern day music" so pull your head out of your arse and realise that what you do is so much easier than what a real producer does in a real studio with a real band that those guys will have forgotten more than you could ever hope to know. The proof of this being that you can't even conceive of a use for the Show Page, where these guys see great value in it.
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am
But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
Of course it is. It allows you to hear a small part of your composition over and over again, just like listening/working with a single pattern. And if you are using an actual pattern, any changes you make will propagate through the rest of that part, just like any other pattern-based workflow. Or you can use a scratch pad in the way you'd work in Pattern Mode in Orion, which means the main arrangement window becomes like Song Mode.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

11185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:34 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:52 pm
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am
But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
Of course it is. It allows you to hear a small part of your composition over and over again, just like listening/working with a single pattern...
But that's not the point of clip launcher / session view. This is:

https://youtu.be/AZK2KWBs9Cg
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wuworld
KVRist
193 posts since 7 Nov, 2009 from DC

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:52 pm
wuworld wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:32 am
Until they tie to modern day music production, I'm not sure it will catch on.
WTF does that mean? I'm sure what you mean is "boring dance shit", rather than "modern day music" so pull your head out of your arse and realise that what you do is so much easier than what a real producer does in a real studio with a real band that those guys will have forgotten more than you could ever hope to know. The proof of this being that you can't even conceive of a use for the Show Page, where these guys see great value in it.
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am
But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
Of course it is. It allows you to hear a small part of your composition over and over again, just like listening/working with a single pattern. And if you are using an actual pattern, any changes you make will propagate through the rest of that part, just like any other pattern-based workflow. Or you can use a scratch pad in the way you'd work in Pattern Mode in Orion, which means the main arrangement window becomes like Song Mode.
Meaning nobody cares about the Show Page, but the old users.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12726 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:46 pm

Just because you don't get it, doesn't make it less than worthwhile. Because, in case you haven't noticed, and given just how far up your arse your head seems to be it is likely you haven't, there are still thousands of bands all over the world recording in physical studios with real, physical instruments and real, proper producers and also getting up on stage in front of tens of thousands f people and performing their music. And to be clear, this isn't me being insulted by you, we are both on the same side of this fence, but when you say something so completely f**king dumb, it reflects poorly on the rest of us, too. I reckon any keyboard player in a band would find the Show Page a really handy way to keep everything organised through a live set and it would minimise the mount of time they have to spend interacting with the computer, which is always going to be a bonus for a performer.
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:34 pm
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am
But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
But that's not the point of clip launcher / session view. This is:
I left the comment I originally responded to so you could understand your mistake - you said "pattern based workflow", you didn't mention anything about "clip launcher/session view", which is a different thing (albeit built on a pattern based workflow). As you point out in the video description, the clip launcher is all about live performance, it has limited application in production that is as easily handled by other DAWs. If you pressed save at the end of that video, for example, what you did wouldn't be there next time you opened that project for you to work on some more.

But you know what? I reckon if you put the same effort, maybe just a little more, into setting it up in Studio One with the Arranger Track, you could probably do what you've done there in S1. Ultimately you probably wouldn't have exactly the same freedom but you'd still be able to build an arrangement live, extend bits that were going well and get out of other bits that weren't. It's just another way of doing the same thing without having to build in a whole new system/mode to make it work.

Really, it's not that different to the way I build up an arrangement in Studio One, except I do it faster than real time, in that I'll be placing patterns 16, 20, 24 bars ahead of the playback head, not just looking at what comes immediately after what's playing now. But it invariably starts as just a small, looping pattern of drums or bass or something. First I build it vertically - adding extra channels/parts to fill out that looping pattern - then I build it out horizontally into a whole song's worth. To me that is a pattern-based approach, as opposed to someone who might write out a whole song's worth of melody/chords on guitar or piano and then add extra parts to turn it into a full arrangement. I always have all the parts long before I have an arrangement.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, Olga, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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antic604
KVRAF

Topic Starter

11185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:34 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:46 pm
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:34 pm
antic604 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:03 am
But that's NOTHING like "pattern based workflow" @BONES implies it to be.
But that's not the point of clip launcher / session view. This is:
I left the comment I originally responded to so you could understand your mistake - you said "pattern based workflow", you didn't mention anything about "clip launcher/session view", which is a different thing (albeit built on a pattern based workflow). As you point out in the video description, the clip launcher is all about live performance, it has limited application in production that is as easily handled by other DAWs. If you pressed save at the end of that video, for example, what you did wouldn't be there next time you opened that project for you to work on some more.
Yes, indeed pattern workflow is different from clip launching. The former is a limited sub-method of the latter, i.e. I can easily have pattern workflow in Bitwig or S1, but I can't have clip launching workflow in S1 the way I can in Bitwig, i.e. experiment live with different combinations of clips. Sure, I can drag & drop clips beteween patterns in S1 or to the main arranger, effectively achieving the same final result, but there's no spontaneity and happy accidents in that :)

And no, you can obviously record everything that's happening in Bitwig's Clip Launcher. You really didn't spend much time with Bitwig when you had it, did you? :wink:

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