I see NI have just started with a subscription offering.....'Komplete Now'

[kovacs]

It was more like 15 years ago. Komplete Care was the name. They dropped the ball big time the second year and had to drop the update plan, not really a subscription, you would get any product they released that year if you owned Komplete.

I still get this on the Komplete update page whenever it's time to update: "As an owner of Komplete Care 2006, you are entitled to an upgrade price for Komplete xyz".

[noiseboyuk]

Read the post you quoted, including the quotes. It seems you believe you're the only one who gets to decide what is relevant, and when. You've been given several different examples of developers who immediately or eventually took a dump on their perpetual licenses in one way or another when/after subscription was introduced. Examples for every variation of challenge you've come up with. The poll in the other thread about subscriptions in general speaks for itself, that kind of rejection doesn't come out of nowhere. Just the fact that venture capital and developers in a monopoly position seem to gravitate towards subscriptions is evidence enough that it should be avoided.

Well I read all those quotes - believe it or not, but I'm not sure you've read mine. I have PT Ultimate - I know all about Avid's rubbish policies and I don't like them. I agree with you on that. But it's not relevant here, because they set out their stall when they went subscription in the first place - what we are looking for is very specific, companies who started softly-softly, and then turned to get rid of perpetual altogether. That's what the masses are screaming about - "but it's the slippery thin end of the wedge slope". Yet for Avid, little has changed in all the many years they have been offering subscriptions. In fact they've just added HEAT for perpetual subscribers with their support packages. Freebies for perpetual license-holders, imagine! The one thing you can perhaps raise is them taking away reinstatements, but these have been, well, reinstated (albeit temporarily). As for iZotope, nothing has changed at al. I have lost of their products as perpetual licenses, and I've not been inconvenienced or penalised in any way as a result of the changes. Maintenance releases are still there too. Yet I genuinely think some here don't think there are new products at all, that new features are only for subscription subscribers. It's not the case - it's just fear-mongering running away with itself.

For music-making I don't like subscriptions. At all. I have zero and that won't change. They are everywhere among the products I use, and yet it doesn't affect me in the slightest. NI have been crystal clear about this being additional, and perpetual being... well, perpetual. It's a non-issue for me. But many here would rather act as if they sky is falling in based on little-to-nothing. Fine - their choice to find replacements for everything that works perfectly well and will continue to work perfectly well.

You clearly think I'm wrong. There we go.

[SLiC]

I would rather do a sub for Komplete (ultimate in my case) than the usual having to wait years for the new stuff to be bundled, but this isn’t that.  So…

They used to do exactly that about a decade ago...I can remember what it was called (but I bet it began with a 'K') but it didn't work (for me) as sometimes you could go a year and they didn't launch anything!

It was more like 15 years ago. Komplete Care was the name. They dropped the ball big time the second year and had to drop the update plan, not really a subscription, you would get any product they released that year if you owned Komplete. They went a year not releasing anything and the product was scrapped after extending it to two years to make up and giving us all copies of Massive etc. NI have always been an amazing dazzling innovative shit show.

Good memory- Yes, I was one of those that signed up for it, I think it ran for a few years but was indeed a shit show that didn't last long...I did end up getting sent a T shirt at some point! Not sure if that was related, my memory isn't what it used to be!

[recursive one]

I don't get the hate to be honest. As long as they don't change the regular licences they can offer a subscription if they want. Same with izotope. I have quite a few izotope products and they still work just as they had before they introduced a subscription. They are also still offering sales and bundles just as before.
Most subscriptions are bad but as long as you can still buy their stuff normaly I really don't mind it.

+ many
I only ever buy perpeutal licenses/upgrades and as long as this is possible I don't mind any alternatives the companies may offer.

I also own quite a few NI and Izotope plugins and use them daily, will continue using them and will uprade them or buy more when I think I need that, as long as they don't cancel that possibility it's all good.

It's a different story with Roland, I probably woulnd't mind having some of their softwares but as long as they only offer subscription I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

[gentleclockdivider]

And now when we have vcv rack in plugin form , people will not use reaktor for modular stuff. (and theres cherryaudio voltage modular too).

Says who ?

[SLiC]

It's a different story with Roland, I probably woulnd't mind having some of their softwares but as long as they only offer subscription I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

Roland quietly backed down...most of there stuff can be bought now with a lifetime key....the cloud thing just becomes the copy projection (which may be enough of a reason for some to avoid, but I have never had an issue with it)

https://www.rolandcloud.com/memberships

[recursive one]

It's a different story with Roland, I probably woulnd't mind having some of their softwares but as long as they only offer subscription I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

Roland quietly backed down...most of there stuff can be bought now with a lifetime key....the cloud thing just becomes the copy projection (which may be enough of a reason for some to avoid, but I have never had an issue with it)

https://www.rolandcloud.com/memberships

Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up!

Does it mean I need to stay online when I use the plugins?

[SLiC]

It's a different story with Roland, I probably woulnd't mind having some of their softwares but as long as they only offer subscription I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

Roland quietly backed down...most of there stuff can be bought now with a lifetime key....the cloud thing just becomes the copy projection (which may be enough of a reason for some to avoid, but I have never had an issue with it)

https://www.rolandcloud.com/memberships

Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up!

Does it mean I need to stay online when I use the plugins?

No, it all works off line for up to 1 week then asks you to log in to authorise if you are not connected, if you log in and out you can be off line for another week etc). My DAW is on line anyway now so now issue and I tend to check in anyway as there are quite a lot of updates, new packs etc.

[recursive one]

No, it all works off line for up to 1 week then asks you to log in to authorise if you are not connected, if you log in and out you can be off line for another week etc). My DAW is on line anyway now so now issue and I tend to check in anyway as there are quite a lot of updates, new packs etc.

Good to know, thanks!

I'm usually offline but I do connect my DAW PC to the web every now and then, certainly more often than once a week.

Now I'll have to check out Roland stuff at some point, welcome GAS

[digitalboytn]

I also own quite a few NI and Izotope plugins and use them daily, will continue using them and will uprade them or buy more when I think I need that, as long as they don't cancel that possibility it's all good.

It's a different story with Roland, I probably woulnd't mind having some of their softwares but as long as they only offer subscription I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

I have a twelve foot pole here that you could borrow if you like

[midi_transmission]

The general question is this. To we want to accept as musicians that we get depend on the internet to make music because of copy protection?

I'm quite sure it will get more over time when companies see that users accept that.

[noiseboyuk]

The general question is this. To we want to accept as musicians that we get depend on the internet to make music because of copy protection?

I'm quite sure it will get more over time when companies see that users accept that.

We've rolled off the main point of the thread, but in general I'm happy to have the internet to make music, as long as it is not required instantly. ie - if something needs to check in once in a while - especially if it does it seamlessly - no issues. If it needs to be there to launch and use it every time - issue.

[original flipper]

Hi

This is a pet peeve for me - anyone who has been around the industry as an end purchaser for 20 years or so would see how things have changed from primarily serials (or no copy protection at all) to the place we now find ourselves.
As far as subscription models are concerned it follows that some way to update/terminate that arrangement needs to be in place - so you want something for a lesser outlay you have to accept the 'strings' attached.
The wider argument - I have probably 5 or 6 completely different sets of software that 'call home' and/or use some kind of activation/control centre software and I do not like it - BUT, I decided to purchase said software so I would be rather contrary to now bemoan it!
Fortunately we do not see too many companies 'going under' so within reason whatever you buy into is reasonably safe.
I also suppose that if you are overly concerned about potentially loosing access to software than you could do a lot worse than produce your music in a timely manner, save stems, audio, take notes, make rough mixes and so on to protect your beloved productions as you go along.
That is another discussion of course: why do modern musicians/producers/hobbyist take years to complete their tunes and/or work on multiple productions and/or just never finish what they start!!!!

[midi_transmission]

I have probably 5 or 6 completely different sets of software that 'call home' and/or use some kind of activation/control centre software and I do not like it - BUT, I decided to purchase said software so I would be rather contrary to now bemoan it!

I have a different opinion here. That does only work when you have a real choice. This works for plugins, I focus on the developers like u-he etc. where I'm always happy to buy from.

But this there are products where it's difficult. Take Cubase for example. You've been a Cubase users for 10 years, know it inside out, now you can follow the online copy protection or use a different DAW. And even when, it's not so unlikely that other DAW will follow when they see it's accepted. And faster than you think you need an internet connection just to create music.

Or take Kontakt, the whole sample eco system is build on it, it's not really a choice to use Kontakt.

I'm concerned with the general development, not about a single case.

For me a computer is a synth that can load different models. How do you like it when your hardware synth would need that to be used?

For me the best form of serious copy protection is something like a dongle. The only issue with that are laptops. But I could imagine something like that you can use the software 14 day without the dongle, before it requires to attach it. Similar to how it should work with the latest ideas of online protection.

[machinesworking]

It was more like 15 years ago. Komplete Care was the name. They dropped the ball big time the second year and had to drop the update plan, not really a subscription, you would get any product they released that year if you owned Komplete.

I still get this on the Komplete update page whenever it's time to update: "As an owner of Komplete Care 2006, you are entitled to an upgrade price for Komplete xyz".

THere's nothing similar about this, Komplete Care covered updates and upgrades to Komplete, but you had no idea what was coming, and they literally had a year where nothing was upgraded. When they send you an offer on Komplete, the update or upgrade is already out. Essentially NI years ago proved to me how idiotic subscriptions are that are based on possible improvements to your paid for software.