To all Cableguys Shaperbox users!!!

[Trancit]

Fair point. Let's see..

Thank you!

Just out of curiosity... would it be possible in general to work with audio via sidechain as envelope trigger or is it nonsense to think this way??

[dermage]

So yes, Method B here, if you don't want to set up multiple MIDI tracks: https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html

That´s all good and well but latency is just one part, Cubase, Studio One, Cakewalk will probably never offer a solution to trigger multiple targets with one midi track...

Fair point. Let's see..

Yeah, right, good idea. Shaperbox could offer a inter instance synchronization, but it would still need to be compensated by the DAW.

[PieBerger]

Ah found on cableguys hp now too:
https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html
Also with example project. Method B.

Nice! I use Method A already (from the site) but never bothered scrolling down to Method B!

Edit: fixed broken quote syntax.

[Jakob / Cableguys]

Just out of curiosity... would it be possible in general to work with audio via sidechain as envelope trigger or is it nonsense to think this way??

Yes! The good thing about MIDI in Live is that you know exactly where the trigger is, and it's sample-accurate. If you'd have an audio trigger than it'd also work be -accurate if it's a pulse.. but if you'd use something else with a small fade-in, or where the transient is not right on the first sample, then the trigger would be delayed.

So let's say you'd just place a Kick for being the trigger and that Kick's transient only comes after 20 samples, then all triggers are 20 samples off.

But having said that.. yes, it's a valid idea, and let's see!

[Trancit]

Just out of curiosity... would it be possible in general to work with audio via sidechain as envelope trigger or is it nonsense to think this way??

Yes! The good thing about MIDI in Live is that you know exactly where the trigger is, and it's sample-accurate. If you'd have an audio trigger than it'd also work be -accurate if it's a pulse.. but if you'd use something else with a small fade-in, or where the transient is not right on the first sample, then the trigger would be delayed.

So let's say you'd just place a Kick for being the trigger and that Kick's transient only comes after 20 samples, then all triggers are 20 samples off.

But having said that.. yes, it's a valid idea, and let's see!

Ok...

Just some thoughts on that...
Even if I use an audio trigger it can be coming from an instrument too, right...?
Means I have my triggers visible as I would have from a pure midi track...

But I have the ability in any DAW to route this signal WITHOUT any further tricks to as many targets I like...
Second: This would even be in FL Studio latency compensated and Midi not... (not your fault of course and FL studio is the only DAW it will definetely improve at some point in time)

I understand the shortcomings of the kind of material one could use as trigger but once learned that the trigger has to start immediately with a sharp transient and without further fade or whatever it´s quite easy to setup one proper channel for sidechaining, save it in your template and never look back...

But anyway thank you very much for considering and taking the time to jump in here!

[Jakob / Cableguys]

Just out of curiosity... would it be possible in general to work with audio via sidechain as envelope trigger or is it nonsense to think this way??

Yes! The good thing about MIDI in Live is that you know exactly where the trigger is, and it's sample-accurate. If you'd have an audio trigger than it'd also work be -accurate if it's a pulse.. but if you'd use something else with a small fade-in, or where the transient is not right on the first sample, then the trigger would be delayed.

So let's say you'd just place a Kick for being the trigger and that Kick's transient only comes after 20 samples, then all triggers are 20 samples off.

But having said that.. yes, it's a valid idea, and let's see!

Ok...

Just some thoughts on that...
Even if I use an audio trigger it can be coming from an instrument too, right...?
Means I have my triggers visible as I would have from a pure midi track...

But I have the ability in any DAW to route this signal WITHOUT any further tricks to as many targets I like...
Second: This would even be in FL Studio latency compensated and Midi not... (not your fault of course and FL studio is the only DAW it will definetely improve at some point in time)

I understand the shortcomings of the kind of material one could use as trigger but once learned that the trigger has to start immediately with a sharp transient and without further fade or whatever it´s quite easy to setup one proper channel for sidechaining, save it in your template and never look back...

But anyway thank you very much for considering and taking the time to jump in here!

Hey Trancit - I have to thank you for bringing up the discussion! Interesting thoughts regarding FL Studio, I was not aware of that..

And yes, the trigger could come from an instrument too.

[Trancit]

Hey Trancit - I have to thank you for bringing up the discussion! Interesting thoughts regarding FL Studio, I was not aware of that..

We germans must stand together!

[LiteOn]

Good, that I've recently upgraded to ShaperBox after using VolumeShaper only for several years. Bad, that I had waited that long.

To me it's a really versatile toolbox with a superb interface/usability and a great team behind it.


@Trancit: good idea!

[elektrastudio]

I'm not totally aware of the issue with FL Studio and Shaperbox, but thanks for bringing it up. I will do some tests. Maybe using FL plugins for sidechaining is better for simple use cases.

[Trancit]

I'm not totally aware of the issue with FL Studio and Shaperbox, but thanks for bringing it up. I will do some tests. Maybe using FL plugins for sidechaining is better for simple use cases.

It only affects Shaperbox instances that are 1. Midi triggered and 2. are placed in a chain after a plugin which causes latency ...

In such cases my favourite method is to use the Fruity Envelope controller Linked to an instance of Fruity Balance...

I made 2 videos on this topic if you are interested in:

[Inspiron]

Thanks for the thread and the videos Trancit. Did some testing and this is still an issue in FL. IL seems to be aware of the general issue with MIDI and latency compensation. Kind of sucks. Even for 4 on the floor I liked to use it in MIDI Trigger mode.

Have you actually tested Fruity Envelope Controller (and similar) to see if those are latency compensated?

Jakob, anything doing with that audio trigger idea?

[DJ Warmonger]

Ableton:
If Shaperbox has to be used after latency causing plugins... the transport syncing is not latency compensated...
In such situations and if non 4 on the floor rhythms are used there is just the option to trigger Shaperbox via Midi...
But as you cannot route one Midi track to multiple targets, you need a seperate Midi track for each Shaperbox instance ...
30 Shaperboxes = 30 additional tracks
80 Shaperboxes = 80 additional tracks...
...just there because the DAWs work in such a bad way... cluttering up the project for basically nothing...

I already noticed and handled this problem. Was even going to record a video about it, but found it to be a very niche issue.

Solution: External Instrument routed to ShaperBox. You can stack any number you like in a single Instrument Rack.

This is my sidechain feed, playing 4th just like Kick.

ShaperBox Sidechain Feed.png

[dermage]

Also on the cableguys page explained with example project (scroll down to method B):

https://www.cableguys.com/midi-trigger- ... -live.html

[Trancit]

I learned about this already but thx anyway...

Nonetheless this solves to a little extend just the behaviour in Ableton (while having 30 instances of the External Instruments isn´t for me a good solution either) but not in the other DAWs...
To keep Shaperbox open for such exceptions there have to be another triggering method which suits all...

I hope the Cableguys didn´t lost the idea...

[Mr D]

Hi folks,

Quick question: is there any way to set a sustain and release value of the envelope when triggering via MIDI?

If so, i can't find it!