Reason 3.0 announced

[Markleford]

If one expresses disappointment at the 3.0 version, they should consider what was to be had in the free 2.5 update. Really, Props might have saved that stuff for 3.0 and everyone might have been happier and could feel more return on investment.

Me, I can just consider it part of the path: the new stuff comes when it comes, and I'll just pay my "subscription price" on a regular basis.

I've wanted something like Combinator since Reason 1, so I'm definitely going for the upgrade. The mastering stuff I can do without, honestly, as I control and mix everything from SONAR.

So, in the balance, is it worth $129US to me? I'm at least faithful enough to pony up the money to find out. The usefulness of the new Soundbank may also sway others, but there's no telling how useful it is at the moment.

And who knows, perhaps we'll see a free 3.5?

- m

[zircon]

Definitely not happy with the update. Look at it this way. Most people use Reason as part of a larger setup, because of its obvious lack of audio recording and VST hosting (essential features to many, many musicians). So, knowing that, why would Propellerhead put in a mastering suite? Chances are, people are not going to be doing their mastering in Reason anyway, so why bother trying to make it more of an all-in-one program? The combinator is nice, but not all that more advanced than, say, the FL layer tool and mixer state saves. Improved browser? It still doesn't even come close to matching the fantastic drag and drop browsers of programs like FL, energyXT, or even Project 5. Improved remote controlling is nice, but I know a hell of a lot of people who were perfectly happy with Reason's hardware integration. I also know a hell of a lot of people who utterly hate Reason's sequencer, especially the piano roll. Priorities, Propellerhead!!

I suppose an inevitable response to this would be "what would I like to see", so I'll list a few things. First, vastly improving the aforementioned piano roll and sequencer. Every host I have yet used has a better piano roll than Reason; Cubase SX 2, Sonar 3, FLStudio 4/5, Project 5, and Traktion, to name just a few. Second, a new synth module; Subtractor and Malstrom are pretty nice, but I think I'm not the only one who would have liked to see, say, a dedicated analog-modeled bass synth, or a 6-operator FM synth. Finally, though the new mastering suite isn't going to hurt anyone, I would have left it out in favor of new effects modules. ie. a new filter machine with more modes and deeper programmability, a granular effects machine (like Grainstates FX in Reaktor), or an advanced delay unit like Spektral Delay.

Don't get me wrong, I love Reason. If I had to pick one host and not buy a single other program or plugin, I would pick Reason. However, I think Propellerhead really needs to think about the type of people using Reason and re-evaluate what we need.

[Warmonger]

If Rewire accepted audio both ways, we'd have to wait months to use it, because every sequencer would need to be updated to support the changes made to the Rewire protocol. Since they've all just had major upgrades recently, it would have been a particularly long wait.

The point of fancy effects is that Reason's sound is lacking in the filter department, so effects are used to make up for this. They could change the filters, but that would break compatibility with older songs. Actually, I think a lot of problems with Reason could be (and would have been) solved if not for the issue of backward compatibility.

[ew]

I don't know if anybody else's noticed,but the web page's upgrade price is for users of 1.x,and NOT 2...
ew

[aMUSEd]

OK the Rewire 3 thing was really just a wild idea - but a basic audio in capability is what would make it possible to master and make the best use of the effects in Reason - otherwise it can master its own stuff but not anything else and you still can't even plug in a guitar and jam with Scream.

[nuffink]

Actually, I think a lot of problems with Reason could be (and would have been) solved if not for the issue of backward compatibility.

It's a toughie. They tried to solve it with the "Improved EQ" switch on the back of ReMix but it didn't work.

Oh hold on a minute. Yes it did.

[tha_man]

I don't get it why people are complaining about Reason's sequencer and piano roll. For me this is the best piano roll / sequencer I've ever used. And I've tried practically everything available on PC. It's so incredibly fast and easy to use, there's no suprises, no fiddling around with unneccesarry features that you never or almost never use, and 90% of time just clutters the interface. Seq is actually one of the biggest reasons I still use Reason. The only thing I miss is the preview of note that you draw in (like in FL), markers and step sequencing mode, but even this are just minor issues.

But I guess everybody likes different sequencer, so if Propellerheads would significantly change it in Reason, they would certainly make some people happy, but also some others unhappy.

[jon9091]

Definitely not happy with the update. Look at it this way. Most people use Reason as part of a larger setup, because of its obvious lack of audio recording and VST hosting (essential features to many, many musicians). So, knowing that, why would Propellerhead put in a mastering suite?

I don't know, but that little demo of the Mclass mastering suite sounds absolutely terrible. It's as if they thought "all we need to do is show how much louder it is, and they'll all be impressed". Ugh. Gritty. Over compressed. Blech. perhaps it's just a lousy MP3 . . . perhaps not.

Jon

[Warmonger]

Have you listened to the demo song Realization in 2.0, and then in 2.5? They made a fix, and it "broke" a song. I suppose it wouldn't be impossible to keep a simple "old style" setting in the preferences. I wasn't just talking about filters and resampling algorithms though. A change to polyphonic CV would be a major change in the code, and would require rather substantial changes that would be too difficult to do while being able to switch back to the old behavior.

Don't get me wrong, I love Reason. If I had to pick one host and not buy a single other program or plugin, I would pick Reason. However, I think Propellerhead really needs to think about the type of people using Reason and re-evaluate what we need.

The problem is that so many people use Reason, all in very different ways. Some are happy to use VST's in a Rewire host, others aren't. Some want audio tracks, others don't. Some want a complete overhaul of the sequencer, while others want it to stay basic like it is right now. There's no way they can possibly cater to everyone in a single update, and some changes would help certain people while simultaneously alienating others.

[JasonC]

I don't get it why people are complaining about Reason's sequencer and piano roll.

Personally, the deal killer for Reason for me has always been that there are no linked or ghost clips in the sequencer. For example, I create a 4 bar chord progression, and copy and paste it through my song 20 times. Now later I decide to change that chord progression. Last time I tried Reason, if you changed the original clip it didn't update the others and you had to copy and paste it 20 times again, or change each of those 20 clips individually. A total PITA.

After using FL for so long, I just can't tolerate sequencers without pattern based sequencing or ghost/linked clips. It totally kills my workflow and inspiration to have to spend so much time messing with arrangements. I can arrange and rearrange (and rearrange again) an entire song in seconds in FL, just elegantly painting out the parts where I want them.

I know Reason has that pattern based sequencing module (Matrix), but last I checked it was monophonic and only good for bass lines.

I really love the Reason concept and the synths all sound great. Ever since Reason 1.0 I've anxiously looked for linked clips in each update, and it looks like we still don't have them.

[xg2]

Overall I'm pleased with new features. For me number one is new EQ. Combinator - good thing but not essential for me. I hoped also about some new modular synth but...with Combinator this can also be achieved.

o.

Of course, if they offered VST support (or simply wrote a NEW app. that offered VST support - hardly impossibly) none of these problems would exist...
It's amazing how Reason lovers will cling onto Reason no matter how many problems they have with it, and how crippled it is. Why waste your time working around problems with it, when you can just use one of the many other music apps. that are VST compatible?

I think the Props are laughing all the way to the bank: they squeeze out a few little 'improvements', and their willing flock all jump to open their wallets, anything rather than admit they made a bad purchase...

[xg2]

"With the Reason 3.0 browser, the task of finding and loading sounds and patches becomes just as smooth and intuitive as the process of making good music in Reason."

Why didn't they just get it right in the first place?

[xg2]

uh, wow

i got my beta email

and i've never been as underwhelmed with an 'update' in my life

this should be the 2.5.1 maintnance release, that's all it is.

i hate to say this about the props who have given so much VFM with bonuses, freebies, etc., but this feels like a cash grab and nothing else.

How dare you say that! The Props. are GOD! They can do no wrong! Reason is like
"A WHOLE RACK OF SYNTHS". (I wish I can remember what genius it was who said that on the SOS forum...)
It's worth TEN thousand pounds to me - think of how much HARDWARE I'd have to buy to do what Reason can do!

Back in the real world...

There are many, many other music applications that already offer far more power than Reason ever will, simply because they support VST. Many of them are free. Many of them are less than £50.
Reason can't compete.

At least, it wouldn't compete, if the mags. and its cultish users didn't hype it up all the time...

i don't want to break the NDA by saying what (very, very little) is in the update, but my two-cents say:

time to fire the project manager

I said that when the original Reason came out!

I can safely say that I'm now off the Reason upgrade cycle, and will be saving a few pennies on not picking this one up

cheers from, me, rarely, rarely, rarely a product cynic on KvR

Have a go with Renoise or Aodix, much more powerful...

[xg2]

uh, wow

i got my beta email

and i've never been as underwhelmed with an 'update' in my life

Apparently you didn't read your non-disclosure agreement, did you?

I'm wondering if you skimmed over the rest of the software as thoroughly as you "read" the agreement you entered into when you signed up as a beta tester.

Yes, how dare you say anything negative about Reason 3! It is GOD!

We will henceforth be censoring any negative comments about Reason 3, and wait for the mags. to give it rave reviews...

[xg2]

I will tell you if I am disappointed after I have seen the upgrade cost.

quote from props website:

Good news! You don't have to wait for the new version. As of today we are lowering the price of Reason with the same amount as the upgrade will cost, so basically, you're getting the upgrade for free!

considering the retail price has dropped $130, then i'd guess that the update will be, yes, $130

They're lowering the price because they know they can't possibly survive in the modern VST-COMPATIBLE market on hype alone...

If VST didn't exist, Reason would be amazing.

VST does, so it isn't. End of argument!