Bargain Center: discussion, gossip, etc.

[chk071]

someone in that thread says that Steinberg's new authorization scheme is basically C/R, do you guys know what that means?

Challenge/Response means the software needs to connect to a remote server to activate itself. With a dongle, serial or keyfile you can activate it offline at any point without needing internet access.

If the remote activation servers go away so does your ability to activate the software. Look at Adobe for an example of this.

Adobe actually handled out keys to the people with 16 year old versions of their CS versions, so they can activate their software without connecting to the shut down servers. So, they're rather one of the examples which show that there are ways, even if the servers are shut down. Another way would be to update the software and remove the copy protection. It has been done, for some games.

[sprnva]

Adobe actually handled out keys to the people with 16 year old versions of their CS versions, so they can activate their software without connecting to the shut down servers. So, they're rather one of the examples which show that there are ways, even if the servers are shut down. Another way would be to update the software and remove the copy protection. It has been done, for some games.

I might be wrong, but I thought they only did that for CS2 and not for subsequent versions that had their servers shut down. Maybe they did.

In any case, challenge/response means you're reliant on a remote server to activate your software, even if it's only one-time. With a dongle, keyfile or serial activation is local, giving you the ability to activate at any point in the future, even if the company goes under or abandons its older products.

[chk071]

Adobe actually handled out keys to the people with 16 year old versions of their CS versions, so they can activate their software without connecting to the shut down servers. So, they're rather one of the examples which show that there are ways, even if the servers are shut down. Another way would be to update the software and remove the copy protection. It has been done, for some games.

I might be wrong, but I thought they only did that for CS2 and not for subsequent versions that had their servers shut down. Maybe they did.

In any case, challenge/response means you're reliant on a remote server to activate your software, even if it's only one-time. With a dongle, keyfile or serial activation is local, giving you the ability to activate at any point in the future, even if the company goes under or abandons its older products.

If the company goes under, or "abandons" their older products, there's always the chance that they take care of the activation process, as happened with Adobe's CS2 products. I wouldn't know why it's such a bury your head in the sand situation.

[sprnva]

If the company goes under, or "abandons" their older products, there's always the chance that they take care of the activation process, as happened with Adobe's CS2 products. I wouldn't know why it's such a bury your head in the sand situation.

That would be the ideal situation. But there's also the chance they won't. Like when NI dropped Service Center. A lot of their older software can no longer be (re)activated. So they didn't take care of it.

It's not going to be a big deal for everyone but for me I tend to go for protection schemes that can't potentially take away access to the software I've paid for down the line.

[djwaxxy]

ive been in touch with steinberg about older products and third party products such as old korg/waldorf/nexus 2..etc

they said most of the steinberg products will carry over to the new encryption but some older products and third party will not..in the case of older third party plugins it will be upto the third party developers to sort that out.but they were sketchy in the info concerning if you can still use the dongle or not,they said no not at this point.

now im hoping that will change to be honest having a dongle was never a issue its in the back of my pc so it never moves and just runs in the background so id like to still use it ,but the new way there doing it is somehing id rather they didnt do as someone mentioned before if they decide one day too quit your screwed,or if theres a glitch or if the internet goes down...also im thinking itll be easier too have your stuff hacked..

so for me steinberg still allow us to use the dongle if we want too itd be a weight of my mind if you did.

[chk071]

If the company goes under, or "abandons" their older products, there's always the chance that they take care of the activation process, as happened with Adobe's CS2 products. I wouldn't know why it's such a bury your head in the sand situation.

That would be the ideal situation. But there's also the chance they won't. Like when NI dropped Service Center. A lot of their older software can no longer be (re)activated. So they didn't take care of it.

It'll always be an effort/cost to benefit consideration. Frankly, if there's only a handful of users which really benefit from a lot of work, I doubt that you can see a point in it. As someone commercially offering software, there HAVE to be financial considerations. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time and manpower on things which don't serve the majority of your customers. I don't think such a concept is hard to understand. I'm sure you want to get paid in your day job as well. You won't be paid if your boss decides that it's a good thing for his employees to work hard for 0.1% of his regular customers, to support 20 year old stuff he doesn't make any money with.

[chk071]

ive been in touch with steinberg about older products and third party products such as old korg/waldorf/nexus 2..etc

they said most of the steinberg products will carry over to the new encryption but some older products and third party will not..in the case of older third party plugins it will be upto the third party developers to sort that out.but they were sketchy in the info concerning if you can still use the dongle or not,they said no not at this point.

now im hoping that will change to be honest having a dongle was never a issue its in the back of my pc so it never moves and just runs in the background so id like to still use it ,but the new way there doing it is somehing id rather they didnt do as someone mentioned before if they decide one day too quit your screwed,or if theres a glitch or if the internet goes down...also im thinking itll be easier too have your stuff hacked..

so for me steinberg still allow us to use the dongle if we want too itd be a weight of my mind if you did.

Last thing I read was that eLicenser will continue to work, but, at some point, it will all be discontinued. The software, and the servers. The software using it will go on working, but, you surely won't be able to activate the code you have lying around somewhere. And, of course, the eLicenser Control Center software might break too, with an OS update. Most likely on Mac OS first.

I'm very curious what happens with their software. For example, I own Halion Symphonic Orchestra, which is an old library, but, they still sell and support it. Will be interesting if they migrate it to their new system. I really hope so, but, you never know. At the very least, I expect migrating all their supported software to be a long process. Will probably take a few years.

[sprnva]

It'll always be an effort/cost to benefit consideration. Frankly, if there's only a handful of users which really benefit from a lot of work, I doubt that you can see a point in it. As someone commercially offering software, there HAVE to be financial considerations. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time and manpower on things which don't serve the majority of your customers. I don't think such a concept is hard to understand. I'm sure you want to get paid in your day job as well. You won't be paid if your boss decides that it's a good thing for his employees to work hard for 0.1% of his regular customers, to support 20 year old stuff he doesn't make any money with.

I agree with all of that. If they didn't use a copy protection scheme that required more work at the product's end then they wouldn't have to do anything. This is my main issue with c/r.

A licence on a dongle doesn't magically disappear. Serials and keyfiles are easily backed up. All they have to say is "that's it. no more updates. enjoy" and move on. The software will stay working.

Anyway, we're going way off-topic here. All I wanted to do was explain what C/R is and what potential pitfalls to be aware of.

[chk071]

As a user, I'm all for serials and keyfiles. I'm actually all for no copy protection at all. Does that make sense for the companies in this business? I don't know. And, it's not up for me to decide that. I'm not running their business, and, I don't have any insights in their sales figures, and how warez affect those.

[Bleulander]

Is U-He having any sales over the festive period…?

[gondii]

Is U-He having any sales over the festive period…?

You just missed the "25% off after doing a survey"-sale, ended 10 days ago.

[Ou_Tis]

Plugin Boutique / Denise being very misleading with their "My Crush" freebie. Claiming it is "$108 list price" when the description indicates it is the simplified version of Denise's Bite Harder ($29 non-sale list price at Plugin Boutique) and Denise gave it away for free to newsletter subscribers. It also sounds completely underwhelming.

[monomox]

Anyway, we're going way off-topic here. All I wanted to do was explain what C/R is and what potential pitfalls to be aware of.

Thanks for the explanation and the discussion, you all. I learned a lot.

[monomox]

Anyway, we're going way off-topic here. All I wanted to do was explain what C/R is and what potential pitfalls to be aware of.

Thanks for the explanation and the discussion, you all. I learned a lot.

I'm also thinking that devs and users have to decide what type of authorization they prefer based on a bunch of factors that often conflict with each other--convenience, cost, reliability, etc.

I don't have any dongles thinking I didn't want to pay extra, but now I see how convenient they can be. I'm also old to remember all the kvetching about iLok dongles and how you're "putting all your eggs in one basket" and what-if-this and what-if-that.

Files stored in your computer are convenient, but I also think they may be easier to crack. I know look down on people who pirate SW, but I did that myself when I was younger. I remember using tools that generate an authorization codes based on the vendor's algorithm. There will always be that uber geek able to break that kind of thing. You can download tools to break the Kindle's DRM encryption. It's always cat and mouse and the price (financial and otherwise) is paid by legit customers.

Purchase - enjoy while it lasts - kvetch when devs stop supporting tech from 10 years ago - repeat

LOL

[monomox]

There's a discussion here about company-specific authorization schemes (of course! there's prolly a ton), viewtopic.php?f=6&t=524069

And of course KVR's own database (one of the fields is "copy protection")
https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/everything