Reason 3.0 announced

[Warmonger]

I think the announcement would have been received much more nicely if it weren't for the puzzle hunting, and, more importantly, the SOS leak. I would have been totally stoked if the big "3.0" on the frontpage just appeared out of the blue. As it is, I'm happy with the product, but the announcement itself was a tiny bit anti-climactic, which is why I was initially pissed off.

And really, if you ignore one certain person on the general forum, there wasn't really all that much of an issue.

[shamann]

Well, I think it HAS attracted power users since 2.0 as I don't recall these guys using it at version 1:

The Crystal Method
The Prodigy
Beastie Boys

Do you know them personally to check? You can also add Will Smith to the list, but that doesn't prove anything. Just because someone has made music through other means doesn't make them an advanced computer user. In the Will Smith interview I read, he was talking about making music with computers like it was something new and cutting edge. Tell that to Meffy!

And celebrity endorsements really only indicate what company has the most active PR department, not really anything useful to the discussion.

The 'most solid Audio ever built' is a bit over-reaching to say the least, but to be honest I have never seen anyone using Reason live. I'm sure they do somewhere, I've just never seen them. I have, however, seen lots of people using Live or Max/MSP or Audiomulch successfully live, all of which do routinely attract advanced users.

I don't think targetting specific markets is a sell out, but rather it's an indication of the developer's mindset, which should also then temper our expectations, criticism and praise. They aren't going to add a full modular synth any time soon, for instance, because some newbie might then look at it and say, "Whoa that looks heavy, maybe I should just use Fruity instead." Reason as it is is approachable, I think it has always looked that way. I don't think it is the leader of the pack at anything it does, but it suits its all-in-one package well.

Cheers,
Steve

[drez]

I think the announcement would have been received much more nicely if it weren't for the puzzle hunting, and, more importantly, the SOS leak. I would have been totally stoked if the big "3.0" on the frontpage just appeared out of the blue. As it is, I'm happy with the product, but the announcement itself was a tiny bit anti-climactic, which is why I was initially pissed off.

And really, if you ignore one certain person on the general forum, there wasn't really all that much of an issue.

I'll admit, I was kinda surprised that they didn't release another synth module, but after reading about and exploring the new modules, I was convinced it was a great update. Understanding the depth of the Combinator helped when we really didn't know all it was capable of and also the Remote addition and how it works is exactly what we wanted in 2.0 .

The M-Class is also killer.

It did seem like a weird release deal, especially the SOS torque up. But I think people are underwhelmed by the Combinator right now....

Wait till they start USING it

[Meffy]

The Props do like to tease. Maybe that's characteristic of the Swedish sense of humor? Some people take it better than others. I don't mind but can see how others would be put off by it. Likewise the premature release of info did throw a spanner into the works. (Why am I thinking of a book by John Lennon?)

No biggie, IMO. The info's out. The black ox has trod on my foot. The die is cast. The Rubicon has been crossed. The cat (myaaaa) is out of the bag.

Meffy Kramer

[AD80]

It did seem like a weird release deal, especially the SOS torque up. But I think people are underwhelmed by the Combinator right now....

Wait till they start USING it

I'm personally not underwhelemed with the Combinator at all. Yeah, its cool stuff. I've been doing that sort of thing in eXT and Tracktion too. Building Polyphonic Pro-53's with 6 oscillators and 3 choruses with an Arpeggiator (oh arps, another thing I they didnt include in R3 is midi effects ). So anyways yes, the Combinator is dope. But I'm still very dissapointed in the release overall considering how long it took. There should be a lot more improvements overall and definitely more modules.

[drez]

Well, I think it HAS attracted power users since 2.0 as I don't recall these guys using it at version 1:

The Crystal Method
The Prodigy
Beastie Boys

Do you know them personally to check?

Well, I actually did talk to the boys of Crystal Method about it. They did a show here in Dallas and we got to go back stage and talk to them after the show. They didn't pick it up because the Props asked them to. They used it because they heard it worked well especially mobile on a laptop, so they tried it.

In multiple interviews that Liam of Prodigy has done, he says that a friend of his told him he should take a gander at it.

Also, if you read the Remix Mag interview with the Beasites, I don't think that they are buddy-buddy with the props. They had issues with it and protools early on, but they used it anyway because they liked it.

You can also add Will Smith to the list, but that doesn't prove anything. Just because someone has made music through other means doesn't make them an advanced computer user. In the Will Smith interview I read, he was talking about making music with computers like it was something new and cutting edge. Tell that to Meffy!

Are you saying that The Crystal method aren't "advanced" users? Ken and Scott do everything themsleves in their own studio short of mastering. They perform on stage with Digital Peformer and play a large amount of the material on stage live. They are competent musicians and producers.

Liam is no slouch himself. I'd say he's made a Roland W30 do things most people can't do with anything that they wanted.

And celebrity endorsements really only indicate what company has the most active PR department, not really anything useful to the discussion.

I disagree. These people are successful because they are GOOD at making music. They do it for a living and have done it very successfully. They don't walk in and sing some vocal line or lay down a solo over something someone else created. They are the guys that MAKE the music. I think they have lots to do with the discussion because they validate the technology.

Would I trade my talents with any of them?

YES! They are better than I am by a factor of 1000, so I'm definitely interested in what they have to say about what they use and why.

The 'most solid Audio ever built' is a bit over-reaching to say the least, but to be honest I have never seen anyone using Reason live. I'm sure they do somewhere, I've just never seen them. I have, however, seen lots of people using Live or Max/MSP or Audiomulch successfully live, all of which do routinely attract advanced users.

Sorry bout that. I meant "most solid audio APP ever built" meaning software. You are right about MSP and especially Live. But people like BT use Live AND Reason. They use Reason as their soundsource when they play live lines on their controller during their performance.

I don't think targetting specific markets is a sell out, but rather it's an indication of the developer's mindset, which should also then temper our expectations, criticism and praise. They aren't going to add a full modular synth any time soon, for instance, because some newbie might then look at it and say, "Whoa that looks heavy, maybe I should just use Fruity instead." Reason as it is is approachable, I think it has always looked that way. I don't think it is the leader of the pack at anything it does, but it suits its all-in-one package well.

Cheers,
Steve

I think the "modular synth" line I made was taken a bit too literally (actually, I just didn't articulate it very well ). The ability to create combi's with the combinator makes reason even more modular than ever.

I think your statement that they wouldn't make it an all out modular synth is accurate. That is why they keep it simple to get going on yet as complex as you want to make it with the routing abilities and now the combinator. But I do think that they could make a pretty cool monster synth

I agree with you for sure about it not being the leader of the pack at everything it does, but for me, combining the things that it DOES do makes it pretty freakin awesome Taking the best of breed for everything add's up to alot of Dollars and integration of those products becomes difficult.

To me, the props are helping me manage all those complicated combinations that I like to make.

[bugs]

I'll be looking forward to what improvements/additions, if any, have been made to the bundled Refills.

[drez]

It did seem like a weird release deal, especially the SOS torque up. But I think people are underwhelmed by the Combinator right now....

Wait till they start USING it

I'm personally not underwhelemed with the Combinator at all. Yeah, its cool stuff. I've been doing that sort of thing in eXT and Tracktion too. Building Polyphonic Pro-53's with 6 oscillators and 3 choruses with an Arpeggiator (oh arps, another thing I they didnt include in R3 is midi effects ). So anyways yes, the Combinator is dope. But I'm still very dissapointed in the release overall considering how long it took. There should be a lot more improvements overall and definitely more modules.

Did you see in the plan files that they are adding 5 more programmers in January? I think that this will help. It for sure took a lot of time on this release, so maybe they are adding some more hands to push the cart a bit faster.

Well, on the plus side for you disappointed folk, maybe they've got this OTHER stuff that you aren't that impressed with out of the way and they'll do a 3.5 update with some more modules kinda like the 2.5 upgrade

[Meffy]

In the Will Smith interview I read, he was talking about making music with computers like it was something new and cutting edge. Tell that to Meffy!

:-D Well, I've been using computers to make music since about 1970. But I've never been particularly good at it. Never had the money or the talent. Some have it, some don't. I don't.

If Will would drop 'round my place, we could have a lot of fun together, I'm sure. He doesn't phone as often these days though. I think he's too busy. *sigh* Ah, the good old days!

Meffy

P.S.: If anyone has an IBM 360 and four or more old Selectric terminals I could borrow or keep, I'd be glad to try recreating several of my earliest rhythm compositions. Wrote 'em around 1971 or '72, in APL, on a little side branch of what I think was called DARPAnet back then. They've renamed it since.

[drez]

(oh arps, another thing I they didnt include in R3 is midi effects ).

Kinda OT, but I don't use ARPs, so I don't see what the big deal is. I guess its more my style of music than anything, so I'm gonna have to take your word for it (and I do, as I believe you have a good pulse for this kind of thing). Actually, tons of people have requested the Arp.

Hopefully it makes the list for you.

But, that's what Live4 and VST's are for methinks. I can get an ARP VST in Live and sequence the module in Reason

(very OT: I'm sooo glad I started using Live4 with Reason. They bizarre VST's that people are making now are really amazing! Thank you small developers for making the odd plugins you do!)

[drez]

If Will would drop 'round my place, we could have a lot of fun together, I'm sure. He doesn't phone as often these days though. I think he's too busy. *sigh* Ah, the good old days!

DUDE! He said YOU were supposed to call HIM!

P.S.: If anyone has an IBM 360 and four or more old Selectric terminals I could borrow or keep, I'd be glad to try recreating several of my earliest rhythm compositions. Wrote 'em around 1971 or '72, in APL, on a little side branch of what I think was called DARPAnet back then. They've renamed it since.

Ah, VSTcobol is the next business class VST to come out. Isn't that flexible, but at least its slow

I wonder if they can port Reason to an IBM Mainframe or if it will be Front End Processor compatible where I could run it on multiple 3745's.

I hate the fact that I remember that stuff...and I'm only 34!

[AD80]

But, that's what Live4 and VST's are for methinks. I can get an ARP VST in Live and sequence the module in Reason

You know, I think it would be good for you to look at Reason from the point of view of somebody who DOESNT like or want to use Rewire. Rewire completely sucks to a lot of people (indlucing me). Its just a hassle and not worth it IMHO. I know thats not how you feel, but believe it or not I'm not alone. So if you're not willing to use Rewire, there is a lot of missing gaps in Reason that are very obvious.

[glaucomys]

I've really tried to find something exciting about v3 and I think the only thing that has anything of merit is the new Combinator, or whatever it is called. When looking at the whole package, I can tell that the additional soundbank is sort of filler to justify the upgrade, sort of like the Orkester soundbank, which I don't think I ever used.

I'm also trying to think of why the whole reason rack hasn't been converted to a hefty vsti or AU. If reaktor can be a plugin, so can reason. It simply smells of a socialist agenda (been trying not to say that, so forgive me).

The biggest gripe I have is the chorus/flanger is thin and yucky, the phaser is like lumpy gravy and the the delay is not brilliant enough, also missing key modulation parameters.

What if they made an update where you could use the rack -sans the sequencer as a plugin, with all those goodies included? I think everyone would be talking about how cool it is, or will be, rather than dragging about how little has changed.

While I will probably upgrade, just to amuse myself, I think there is a lot of valid noise about this 'upgrade'. Personally, I buy software with my hard earned money because it is an investment in the future development of the software, it is always in the sense of an investment (and plain honesty), so I can see how a lot of people might wonder how their money was spent. Did they give a raise to everyone and blow off R&D? why not another synth at the very least? Why not a subtractor-pro, or some silly varient that makes an improvement on the existing toolkit? I just don't get it. I get this strange feeling that they are shooting themselves in the foot and haven't yet felt the pain, like a delayed reaction.

Seeing this makes me wonder if they even read user requests, or if they only do as they please. I've been wanting to have a timer/clock for the sequence length, how complicated is that. Have you ever needed to write a 30? Well, you can't in reason alone, not even sketch an idea (well I use a calculator and figure it out, but I shouldn't have to). This type of stuff makes me feel like I'm using a toy (didn't want to say that either), but it is looking like a toy, more and more.

A lot of people I know will be skipping this upgrade as they don't see it as an upgrade. to some, 2.5 was far more significant!

Glau

[hvaring]

It for sure took a lot of time on this release, so maybe they are adding some more hands to push the cart a bit faster.

Keep in mind that Reason never ever crashes. Unlike some other music apps that come to mind. That kind of quality control takes time, lots of time. I'd rather have something stable that works exactly as the manual says than some wonderful new feature that crashes on me all the time.

[AD80]

It for sure took a lot of time on this release, so maybe they are adding some more hands to push the cart a bit faster.

Keep in mind that Reason never ever crashes. Unlike some other music apps that come to mind. That kind of quality control takes time, lots of time. I'd rather have something stable that works exactly as the manual says than some wonderful new feature that crashes on me all the time.

Why do people keep sayin this type of thing? Yes Reason is stable, but so are a lot of other hosts and VST's . Thats not even a valid argument anymore. I know first hand Reason is very stable, but so are my other hosts with VST's, so what.