Saturation on the master

[jethrobull]

Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!

No problem. This is quite a 'thick' and saturated mix in given the song and arrangement, but the top end (12 string acoustic, drums, percussion) still cuts through nicely and the hewge overdriven 808 kick isn't farting the track.

https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/the- ... to-the-sea

It's TB Reelbus V3 on the master, peaking at about 2 on the meter.


rb3a.jpg

Gives it a bit of a sheen (emphasis skewed to the HF) and also a bit more cohesion as a whole.

What a great track! Free download also

[Synthack]

.........

[LeVzi]

When I said EDM, I am literally calling everything dance music related, using a "colouring" plugin on the master, to add "something"

I understand it more with recorded music, but for some kind of dance music, not sure I would use it tbh .

[legendCNCD]

On techno and dub techno there are usually some stereo saturation going on in master... depending on the mix of course.

[excuse me please]

I remember there was a time when they put this thingy on everything.

"The Sausage Fattener is used by Tiësto, Kaskade, Diplo, Laidback Luke, Chuckie, Sebastian Ingrosso, Dirty South, Hardwell, Angger Dimas, Frank E, Zedd, Lazy Rich, Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike, Marcus Schossow, John Dahlbäck and many other DJ/producers."

From Dada Life site.

Add up guys like Avicii, Skrillex and Garrix and I'd say saturation has created the sound of the 10s.
Prediction: it will also create the sound of the 20s.

[Bodhisan]

Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!

No problem. This is quite a 'thick' and saturated mix in given the song and arrangement, but the top end (12 string acoustic, drums, percussion) still cuts through nicely and the hewge overdriven 808 kick isn't farting the track.

https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/the- ... to-the-sea

It's TB Reelbus V3 on the master, peaking at about 2 on the meter.


rb3a.jpg

Gives it a bit of a sheen (emphasis skewed to the HF) and also a bit more cohesion as a whole.

I like this track, too. I think you describe it well in being thick and saturated. The only thing, for me, that really loses "clarity" are the vocals - but I have a feeling that's intentional, as it's (and I mean this as a compliment, because I like him) very Bob Mould-ish, and he, for whatever reason, tends to bury his vocals.

[Spring Goose]

I work entirely ITB, and i find putting a bit of saturation on the master makes a song/track sound cohesive and not thin and seperate.

[NinjaToon]

When I said EDM, I am literally calling everything dance music related, using a "colouring" plugin on the master, to add "something"

I understand it more with recorded music, but for some kind of dance music, not sure I would use it tbh .

Jon Hopkins makes "dance music" but you can't dance to his latest album...?

I'm not being glib but I literally don't know what "everything dance music related" is? Riverdance is dance music.

If you are talking about people making music with electronics or with computers exclusively or a combination of both, either in an intelligent or non-intelligent way (lol) then yeah I would say the vast majority of those people have some kind of distortion process on their master bus; to be clear in the broadest sense of distortion here. How many electronic music records have inflator on it?

15 -20 years ago the internet used to debate weather or not you should use master bus compression quite a bit. That debate pops up a lot less now because it's become a standard practice, this just reminds me of that. I not even sure why you asked this question? People who don't mix into a master bus chain always want to let people know about it, anyone else notice that? Like, ok?

*edits for grammar

[NinjaToon]

double post

[LeVzi]

I remember there was a time when they put this thingy on everything.

"The Sausage Fattener is used by Tiësto, Kaskade, Diplo, Laidback Luke, Chuckie, Sebastian Ingrosso, Dirty South, Hardwell, Angger Dimas, Frank E, Zedd, Lazy Rich, Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike, Marcus Schossow, John Dahlbäck and many other DJ/producers."

From Dada Life site.

Add up guys like Avicii, Skrillex and Garrix and I'd say saturation has created the sound of the 10s.
Prediction: it will also create the sound of the 20s.

I thought that was actually a joke of a plugin lol

[jancivil]

People who don't mix into a master bus chain always want to let people know about it, anyone else notice that?

seems entirely unlike people having the same opinion as you, doesn't it
I posted basically to agree that saturation can create an appearance of 'more clarity', but I don't mix into a saturation effect for_reasons. They don't have to be anybody else's reasons or argue in dismissal of reasons in favor, and this seems like a forum that's here for discussion regarding plugins use.

anybody else notice this tendency to characterize a differing opinion as a sign of a personal flaw on the internet

[NinjaToon]

People who don't mix into a master bus chain always want to let people know about it, anyone else notice that?

seems entirely unlike people having the same opinion as you, doesn't it
I posted basically to agree that saturation can create an appearance of 'more clarity', but I don't mix into a saturation effect for_reasons. They don't have to be anybody else's reasons or argue in dismissal of reasons in favor, and this seems like a forum that's here for discussion regarding plugins use.

anybody else notice this tendency to characterize a differing opinion as a sign of a personal flaw on the internet

There is a zealousness with certain mixing practices usually revolving around "preserving the source" and that is an observation btw. Sorry if that has rubbed you the wrong way.

Honestly someone active on a music production forum for ten plus years asking if any EDM producers use mix bus saturation as best practice is weird to me. If it were a novice asking in good faith that would be one thing.

Also where would we be if Joe Meek preserved the source or King Tubby?

If you haven't noticed any pedantry and one upmanship on audio production forums then carry on.

[plexuss]

YMMV

Indeed. I think our philosophies on what constitutes a good mix are probably very different.

A song like this needs a certain amount of (for want of a better term) bollocks.. ; it wouldn't work half as well with a more thin sounding or 'neutral' type of mix. The clarity is there in that the instruments are clear, but the tape compression and (deliberate, hence the HF emphasis) saturation 'smearing' to give an added cohesion and energy to in essence assist in trying to convey the power of a band playing together, rather than a load of stuff recorded separately.

Where you say 'harsh', I would say 'having bite'. Not sure if you've done much work with indie guitars?

Anyway, interesting debate. Not ever opinions I'd heard on that mix before, but you obviously do have a decent level of competence, so I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion, just saying that it does need to be 'horses for courses', and in my view the approach I've taken works nicely here.

I agree with you as well that our subjective sense of a good quality mix is too different. What you consider bite and balls I consider harsh sounding distortion and an over-all lack of clarity in those heavy sections. For me ball-and bite and clarity are not mutially exclusive - they call all exist together. The way you've used saturation is likely contributing to the lack of clarity in your track. There is likely a way to achieve the balls and bite you crave, and the clarity I crave but it would require a collaboration and likely some heated arguments to get there. For example, I feel confident I could get you the balls-and-bite you want with added clarity but I've have to mix your track to demonstrate that. alas. anyway good to hear what others are doing, what they consider good sounding etc. thanks for sharing and happy 2022!

[donkey tugger]

Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!

No problem. This is quite a 'thick' and saturated mix in given the song and arrangement, but the top end (12 string acoustic, drums, percussion) still cuts through nicely and the hewge overdriven 808 kick isn't farting the track.

https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/the- ... to-the-sea

It's TB Reelbus V3 on the master, peaking at about 2 on the meter.


rb3a.jpg

Gives it a bit of a sheen (emphasis skewed to the HF) and also a bit more cohesion as a whole.

I like this track, too. I think you describe it well in being thick and saturated. The only thing, for me, that really loses "clarity" are the vocals - but I have a feeling that's intentional, as it's (and I mean this as a compliment, because I like him) very Bob Mould-ish, and he, for whatever reason, tends to bury his vocals.

Hehe, not the effects, just my shit automation. I'm terrible for it (not as bad as I used to be) - neglecting to remember that I know the words, but that others might like to hear them too..

Cheers for the kind words!

[cron]

"The Sausage Fattener is used by Tiësto, Kaskade, Diplo, Laidback Luke, Chuckie, Sebastian Ingrosso, Dirty South, Hardwell, Angger Dimas, Frank E, Zedd, Lazy Rich, Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike, Marcus Schossow, John Dahlbäck and many other DJ/producers."

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of these guys are working with external mix engineers and that precisely none of them are doing their own mastering, though it'd kind of amazing if they were actually using it.

• Please leave 6 dB of peak headroom when you send your music to us.

• Please supply the highest quality files you have access to. Ideally these will be 24-bit, uncompressed wav files of the tracks to be mastered.

• Please do not Fatten the Sausage.