Cubase 12 dropping VST 2 support (For Apple Silicon)

[Dewdman42]

More developers are coming on board the vst3 wagon. The developers who don't will eventually become niche products for hobbyist.
That's my prediction...
rsp

No this is where you are just flat out wrong. the vast majority of VST3 plugins floating around are wrapped. They are not true VST3 plugins. There are only a few out there that are justifiably coded to the VST3 sdk in order to have multi midi ports, for example. The vast majority are simply wrappers around VST2. This introduces needless complexity of its own I might add...and forces midi data to go through a translation out of midi and back to midi again..sometimes with bad consequences.

Just because a developer releases a VST3 pluginversion does not mean they used the VST3 sdk to do it. An awful lot of plugins are made with JUCE, for example, which is fundamentally a VST2 paradigm. JUCE is able to produce wrapped VST3 plugins...but the guts of those plugins are through and through...VST2....with the added complexity I just mentioned of having to translate midi back and forth between midi and Steinberg's brain dead VST3 abstractions.

sorry but no...the development community has absolutely NOT embraced VST3. What we are ending up with is wrapped VST3 plugins...around VST2 tech...which needlessly complicates and even adds processing overhead that would otherwise not be necessary.

[Dewdman42]

as I said PEOPLE WILL EITHER STOP USING CUBASE OR RAISE A RUCKUS

You are welcome to your own speculation as am I. As I also said, we shall see how it plays out.

[zvenx]

More developers are coming on board the vst3 wagon. The developers who don't will eventually become niche products for hobbyist.
That's my prediction...
rsp

No this is where you are just flat out wrong. the vast majority of VST3 plugins floating around are wrapped. They are not true VST3 plugins. There are only a few out there that are justifiably coded to the VST3 sdk in order to have multi midi ports, for example. The vast majority are simply wrappers around VST2. This introduces needless complexity of its own I might add...and forces midi data to go through a translation out of midi and back to midi again..sometimes with bad consequences.

Just because a developer releases a VST3 pluginversion does not mean they used the VST3 sdk to do it. An awful lot of plugins are made with JUCE, for example, which is fundamentally a VST2 paradigm. JUCE is able to produce wrapped VST3 plugins...but the guts of those plugins are through and through...VST2....with the added complexity I just mentioned of having to translate midi back and forth between midi and Steinberg's brain dead VST3 abstractions.

sorry but no...the development community has absolutely NOT embraced VST3. What we are ending up with is wrapped VST3 plugins...around VST2 tech...which needlessly complicates and even adds processing overhead that would otherwise not be necessary.

Do you have a list of all the developers who use Juce? You did say the vast majority, so I assume you know this factually.
rsp

[Dewdman42]

I'm not interested in debating further with you on this. As I already said, JUCE is just one example. Enjoy your cubase while you can.

[pixel85]

"Matthias_Quellmann
VST 2 plug-ins will only run in Cubase 12 in Rosetta 2 mode on Apple silicon Mac computers. Cubase 12 will not support VST 2 when running natively on Apple silicon Macs."

It's from the Cubase forum. I'm not a mac user I just saw it now and I thought that maybe it will be helpful for some.

[Psuper]

Cubase 12 will have major issues for a long time with their new licensing among other significant changes. And 11 is solid -- more than most would ever need.

Pro Tip" Before you 'upgrade' to any new version of anything, have a look at what competitors offer for the same amount or less.

[jamcat]

More developers are coming on board the vst3 wagon. The developers who don't will eventually become niche products for hobbyist.
That's my prediction...
rsp

No this is where you are just flat out wrong. the vast majority of VST3 plugins floating around are wrapped. They are not true VST3 plugins. There are only a few out there that are justifiably coded to the VST3 sdk in order to have multi midi ports, for example. The vast majority are simply wrappers around VST2. This introduces needless complexity of its own I might add...and forces midi data to go through a translation out of midi and back to midi again..sometimes with bad consequences.

Just because a developer releases a VST3 pluginversion does not mean they used the VST3 sdk to do it. An awful lot of plugins are made with JUCE, for example, which is fundamentally a VST2 paradigm. JUCE is able to produce wrapped VST3 plugins...but the guts of those plugins are through and through...VST2....with the added complexity I just mentioned of having to translate midi back and forth between midi and Steinberg's brain dead VST3 abstractions.

sorry but no...the development community has absolutely NOT embraced VST3. What we are ending up with is wrapped VST3 plugins...around VST2 tech...which needlessly complicates and even adds processing overhead that would otherwise not be necessary.

All of this just spells opportunity for the next generation of developers. The plugin market is oversaturated as it is now. Coding true native VST3 plugins will give new developers who are willing to put the work in an advantage over the competition.

[zvenx]

Cubase 12 will have major issues for a long time with their new licensing among other significant changes. .........

......

Why do you think so?
rsp

[LeVzi]

I'm not interested in debating further with you on this. As I already said, JUCE is just one example. Enjoy your cubase while you can.

So we just have to take your word for it ?

I'm turning into Donkey_Tugger, but unless you backup your BS, its just BS.

So where is your evidence of your claims ?

[jancivil]

...

[rod_zero]

All of this just spells opportunity for the next generation of developers. The plugin market is oversaturated as it is now. Coding true native VST3 plugins will give new developers who are willing to put the work in an advantage over the competition.

No, it is opportunity to other DAWs to develop and do something different. And then one developer will stop supporting VST and the march of progress will go on

[antic604]

...Coding true native VST3 plugins will give new developers who are willing to put the work in an advantage over the competition.

In what way?

Do you mean advantage "on the job market", or that their plugins will actually be better - feature wise - than VST2 and VST2-wrapped-in-VST3-skin?

If I was a plugin dev, I'd be looking at CLAP right now, because that's where real innovation seems to be: support for clever multithreading, non-destructive and per-voice modulation of parameters, etc. The only problem with CLAP is that it needs to be reasonably widely adopted as a standard. Bitwig, Tracktion, Reaper and Mixbux/Ardour won't be enough.

[syntonica]

...Coding true native VST3 plugins will give new developers who are willing to put the work in an advantage over the competition.

In what way?

Do you mean advantage "on the job market", or that their plugins will actually be better - feature wise - than VST2 and VST2-wrapped-in-VST3-skin?

If I was a plugin dev, I'd be looking at CLAP right now, because that's where real innovation seems to be: support for clever multithreading, non-destructive and per-voice modulation of parameters, etc. The only problem with CLAP is that it needs to be reasonably widely adopted as a standard. Bitwig, Tracktion, Reaper and Mixbux/Ardour won't be enough.

Hopefully, the lemmings will follow. Even if it's not widely adopted as a plugin format, it still makes an excellent base format to use. Hopefully, again, there will be off-the-shelf wrappers to other formats that are not overly burdened with licensing issues. As a programmer, I hate dealing with large numbers of standards, obscure and overly complex APIs (Java Swing, anyone?) Being able to focus on one plugin format will be a boon!

[Music Engineer]

Even if it's not widely adopted as a plugin format, it still makes an excellent base format to use. Hopefully, again, there will be off-the-shelf wrappers to other formats that are not overly burdened with licensing issues.

yes! let the steinbergs, apples and avids have their own proprietary formats if they really need them and let plugin programmers have some common, open, hassle-free base format to write their code against and let there be reliable wrappers that can be written and debugged once and for all and everyone can be happy! such wrappers are actually part of the plan for clap anyway

[Atlatnesiti]

Dropping Vst 2 support by Steinberg is the excellent move.
Maybe, just maybe it will force lazy developers to update their plug-ins at last