Pigments 3.5 vs Dune 3.5

[Introspective]

I would use Pigments more if it used less CPU and Dune if it had an enjoyable to use GUI. As is, there are other synths I prefer and so far in projects I haven't used either Dune or Pigments and only dabble with them here and there.

Same! I am happy to have both, and happy to support both companies, but at the end of the day, I don't actually use either of them (much).

[kobal]

with dune their is no way i can spend time programing this synth, the programing experience is frustrating i really don t like ,the sound for me was not worht the hassle of using this user interface but this i could be wrong i didn t give it a proper try.

just like arturia it seems i hear a synapse sound in all their synths that i m not a big fan but maybe this is placebo

[chk071]

I'm really surprised about all the critic voices about Dune's interface. If there is something I wouldn't criticize about it, it's its GUI and workflow. Always liked what Richard does there, since Dune 1. Complex architecture made reasonable easy.

[Introspective]

I'm really surprised about all the critic voices about Dune's interface. If there is something I wouldn't criticize about it, it's its GUI and workflow. Always liked what Richard does there, since Dune 1. Complex architecture made reasonable easy.

I have a serious axe to grind with Dune's UI. I hate it. Way too tabby.

It probably has to do with my habit to tweak, rather than build patches from INIT, but, for example, if I hear a reverb I think is too wet, I have to look on TWO tabs, and its placement can vary on each of those tabs, so I could end up looking in (effectively) 16 different "places". If I hear a filter that is too resonant, I have to figure out which layer it's on and then which filter it is. If an oscillator is bugging me ... heaven help me. ...and don't get me started on its wavetable implementation (GUI-wise). UGH. The. Worst.

Disclaimer: I almost always hate synths with layers. Omnisphere seems to get it most "right" in my mind (e.g.: having all of the modulation shown, just greyed out for the layer you're on), but even that's not great. IMO, if I want layers, I'll do it using my DAW.

I'm big on using the DAW in general, though. Like arps or sequences. What the @#$( is the point of a sequencer on a synth?!? I just don't get it. Never have. Periodically try to get "into" it to see what all the fuss is about, quickly go right back to just using a @#$%ing loop in the DAW. What's so hard about that ?!?

...Oh dear. Someone hit my "rant" button. Sorry.

[chk071]

Disclaimer: I almost always hate synths with layers.

I dare you to never try Electra2 then. It's absolutely horrible in that regard. Never experienced synth programming that tedious.

For Dune, I don't think you really have to use layers. I don't think I ever did. Frankly, I consider layers as something redundant. They don't fit my workflow. If I need something like that, I layer different instances, but, not in the synth itself. Unless I want to do keyboard splits, then it can be useful.

[Introspective]

Disclaimer: I almost always hate synths with layers.

I dare you to never try Electra2 then. It's absolutely horrible in that regard. Never experienced synth programming that tedious.

I used to really like ElectraX!

...but the FIRST THING I DID was to go through the patches and strip them all down to a single layer (in some cases multiple patches, one for each layer that I liked).

...I eventually moved from ElectraX to Icarus and never looked back. I do think Icarus 2 improved the UI a bit (though clearly the dev is going for the whole "DAWless" mode, which I don't like, but ... that's okay, I just ignore the sequencer and the like).

For Dune, I don't think you really have to use layers. I don't think I ever did. Frankly, I consider layers as something redundant. They don't fit my workflow. If I need something like that, I layer different instances, but, not in the synth itself. Unless I want to do keyboard splits, then it can be useful.

Yes, I could do with Dune what I did with ElectraX, but I haven't (yet) felt the need to. Maybe I should. I do like the sound of Dune. ...there are just synths with UIs that I prefer, so it's hard to find the time to "make it my own," if you know what I mean.

[chk071]

Disclaimer: I almost always hate synths with layers.

I dare you to never try Electra2 then. It's absolutely horrible in that regard. Never experienced synth programming that tedious.

I used to really like ElectraX!

...but the FIRST THING I DID was to go through the patches and strip them all down to a single layer (in some cases multiple patches, one for each layer that I liked).

...I eventually moved from ElectraX to Icarus and never looked back. I do think Icarus 2 improved the UI a bit (though clearly the dev is going for the whole "DAWless" mode, which I don't like, but ... that's okay, I just ignore the sequencer and the like).

Absolutely. I think Icarus is a much more straight forward synth.

[kobal]

me i think it cause of the layout, workflow has been enhanced i m gonna give it a other try

[pdxindy]

It probably has to do with my habit to tweak, rather than build patches from INIT, but, for example, if I hear a reverb I think is too wet, I have to look on TWO tabs, and its placement can vary on each of those tabs, so I could end up looking in (effectively) 16 different "places". If I hear a filter that is too resonant, I have to figure out which layer it's on and then which filter it is. If an oscillator is bugging me ... heaven help me. ...and don't get me started on its wavetable implementation (GUI-wise). UGH. The. Worst.

I mostly make my own presets and it is still the same thing. I also only use the one layer.

In Dune, the Envelopes have no slope control. To control Env Slope, one has to modulate say the Env Decay by the Envelope itself. That affects the time of the Decay so to adjust them in relation to each other it is back and forth between the Env and Mod Matrix.

Mod Matrix slots have no modifiers. In Pigments or Hive you can just assign say modwheel right in the mod slot to control that modulation. In Dune, you have to make a separate mod matrix slot to control the depth of a different matrix slot. If those 2 don't happen to be close to each other in the Matrix, then you gotta scroll the matrix back and forth to adjust those two related parameters.

Dune only has 2 Envelopes. Amp and Filter. The FM Osc has no dedicated env's for the 2 mod operators. So then one is using MSEG's as envelopes. Each one is one its own tab so tweaking the FM Osc is tab city!

There is no visual feedback. A knob, say cutoff, does not give any indication it is being modulated. Right click on the knob does NOT show what is modulating it. The only way to see what is modulating f.e. filter cutoff is to go scroll through the mod matrix to see. The only way to scroll the Mod Matrix is to use the scrollbar on the right side.

The Mod Matrix is tiny and only shows 7 of the possible 32 slots.

And so on...

One Dune layer is simple, yet it requires a lot of tabbing.

[AnX]

If those 2 don't happen to be close to each other in the Matrix, then you gotta scroll the matrix back and forth to adjust those two related parameters.

You can move the MM slots up/down

[pdxindy]

If those 2 don't happen to be close to each other in the Matrix, then you gotta scroll the matrix back and forth to adjust those two related parameters.

You can move the MM slots up/down

How do you do that? Not that dragging slots around for editing is a good workflow either.

[3ptguitarist]

Does anyone have a comparison video between dune 3.5 and pigments 3.5? I'd like to see a video showing the same custom made patches of bass, pads, leads, etc.

[W23]

I’m just continually knocked out by how cpu efficient Dune3 is, even with the analog modeled filters. The two or three places where you can insert distortion is a pretty great idea too. I need to break Pigments out again though, and take the advice of others, where you just start from the INIT and build from there. Pigments presets are great, but they use a bit more cpu than I think they should sometimes. That may change my opinion of Pigments. I bought Pigments for $70 a couple of years ago, and paid for the soundsets that were offered with the recent update. Not sure why I did that. They’re good, but I thought they would offer some new wavetables or something. As far as I can tell, they don’t

[LFO8]

I'm really surprised about all the critic voices about Dune's interface. If there is something I wouldn't criticize about it, it's its GUI and workflow. Always liked what Richard does there, since Dune 1. Complex architecture made reasonable easy.

I have a serious axe to grind with Dune's UI. I hate it. Way too tabby.

It probably has to do with my habit to tweak, rather than build patches from INIT, but, for example, if I hear a reverb I think is too wet, I have to look on TWO tabs, and its placement can vary on each of those tabs, so I could end up looking in (effectively) 16 different "places". If I hear a filter that is too resonant, I have to figure out which layer it's on and then which filter it is. If an oscillator is bugging me ... heaven help me. ...and don't get me started on its wavetable implementation (GUI-wise). UGH. The. Worst.

Disclaimer: I almost always hate synths with layers. Omnisphere seems to get it most "right" in my mind (e.g.: having all of the modulation shown, just greyed out for the layer you're on), but even that's not great. IMO, if I want layers, I'll do it using my DAW.

I'm big on using the DAW in general, though. Like arps or sequences. What the @#$( is the point of a sequencer on a synth?!? I just don't get it. Never have. Periodically try to get "into" it to see what all the fuss is about, quickly go right back to just using a @#$%ing loop in the DAW. What's so hard about that ?!?

...Oh dear. Someone hit my "rant" button. Sorry.

I tend to agree. Love the sound of Dune personally but it’s very tedious to program. Also love the sound of Omnisphere, less tedious to program than Dune, but still a lot more tedious to program than Vital.

I have the utmost respect for Matt for how he got the UX of that synth SO right. It does not have such a distinct sound as Dune or Omnisphere have, but the range if sounds I can get out of it is very broad. The only thing I could be left wanting for is more modeled filter types.

[DJ Warmonger]

Does anyone have a comparison video between dune 3.5 and pigments 3.5? I'd like to see a video showing the same custom made patches of bass, pads, leads, etc.

I think it kinda defeats the point as both synths have very different features. For instance Pigments 3 has an additive oscillator that Dune 3 has not.

Sure, you can do basic supersaw / acid / squelch / house bass with both, but then what's the point? 90% of synths can do that as well.