Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[N__K]

So, are you any good at coding? JavaScript, for example. I am trying to teach myself onto it (well form the 'Music and Coding' Youtube channel, to be more specific). Maybe you can through some ideas on how it can be implemented as a basic application to a 'digital music notation'?

I'm not a professional programmer, although I do have some scripting experience. I cannot help by working with/for you, but I can tell how I would go about trying to make a digital format for PMN:

So far as I understand, PMN is mainly about visual representation, and at this point you seem to need an automated solution for translating composition data (MIDI or MusicXML etc.) into PMN.

If I was tasked with such a job, I'd probably start with writing a script for getting data from MusicXML and converting it into visually formatted PMN - in other words, parse MusicXML, format data visually as PMN, export formatted PMN PDF.
For that I would use scriptable graphic design software such as Adobe apps - most of them support JavaScript (last I checked, anyway).

My next step would be designing own file format for PMN, which I'd base on XML. I'd probably continue using the scriptable graphic design app as the "renderer" due to convenience. After settling on "minimum viable" PMN file format, I'd start thinking of GUI app for writing PMN scores and making PDFs with it. At that stage I'd probably try to get professional help.


***


DISCLAIMER: I'm not at all sure that anything I wrote here is the "right way".

What I am sure of is that for a non-professional coder, such projects are likely to be extremely demanding. I suspect that if you're learning JavaScript now, and do it alone, it may take a year or more just to arrive at a decent "MusicXML to PMN-PDF" translation script.

As with music projects, it all comes down to how bold you are, how much free time you have, and how much life and health (including mental) you have left. If you have good amount of all of those, I'm sure that with enough effort you can succeed

[Pashkuli]

• not designed by a disingenuous arsehole

So it is not about any notation. Rather personal assessment on subjective attributes. I see.
We do not discuss psychology, nor any kind of interpersonal, mutual attraction here.
This is a topic about alternative music notation.

[Pashkuli]

I'm not a professional programmer, although I do have some scripting experience. I cannot help by working with/for you.

Ok, no worries. Good to see how you think about such problem, but it should not be that complicated.
Because actually PMN is very similar in its design to tablature. I have posted earlier about that.

I see you are more into DAW's MIDI-roll practical use for notation and automation of parameters... what is 99% of what young people use these days.
PMN is the same but it is intended to be more compact and handwriting\texting friendly.

[BertKoor]

So if you were taught C D E instead of Do Re Mi that would be one brick less in your wall? Interesting...


Music & coding? What about music as coding?
https://sonic-pi.net/

JavaScript is a language for front end duties. Parsing complex input files is not its strongest point. I like the APL suggestion

[Pashkuli]

So if you were taught C D E instead of Do Re Mi that would be one brick less in your wall? Interesting...


Music & coding? What about music as coding?
https://sonic-pi.net/

JavaScript is a language for front end duties. Parsing complex input files is not its strongest point. I like the APL suggestion

Never said that. Actually both Do, Re, Mi and A, B, C... are special cases or favourite items.
I more of a logical guy. I would not suggest my favourite lyrics, nor my favourite alphabet.

This sonic-pi website looks interesting. I am checking it out now. Thank you for the link!
So, what is "APL suggestion"?


P.S. This Sonic-P looks more like a program such as 'Impulse tracker', which I used in year 2000. Not really about music notation.

[Synthack]

Kind of neat idea, it reminds me of the visual system Vangelis goes by. Some people might actually really gravitate towards this idea and use it.

As someone who has absolutely no idea how to read regular notation i don't really have anything else to add.

I mean i can somewhat remember the essentials if i stop and really stare at the notation, but i've just never really dived into music theory. I really should because i'd love to have a piece of paper and write a melody or beat out in bed rather than use my laptop.

[jancivil]

So if you were taught C D E instead of Do Re Mi that would be one brick less in your wall? Interesting...

one less bit of foundation for musicianship

C D E
C# D# E#
et cetera
all encompassed in solfege

a musician recognizes the usefulness of that
This poseur isn't, doesn't, has not the first clue of use

D0000D! Where are all your superior performances using this superior system? Does it not avail you so much quicker in the building of your repertoire? What is in your repertoire, would you kindly link us to performances of some of it?
Where are the countless users who have embraced this revolution? Surely this is so great you have some vivid testimonials?
Where's the otherwise impossible keyboard performance only achieved with the Pashkuli® you go on about at FB?

'why is there not a special notehead for all 12 pitches of _'
"Because wiser heads prevailed all of this time?" (Obvious rhetorical question, but no)
"No."

What a compelling answer! Your whole argument encapsulated in two letters! There ya go.
So all of the music made over ~6 centuries was what? It's nothing to you, apparently. Of course you're a singular, even sui generis genius who's here to save us all from the... the what? Spit it out, where's the problem?

It's normal intuitive response, pitches go up, they appear in the graphic to be higher, pitch is low, symbol is placed lower.
It's really not much of a correction that all pitches go in the same place, is it? Really? Is the next amazing innovation to remake the piano roll that way? Just rearrange it completely so everyone has to relearn a new way, say a whole new shape with buttons with them pictures! Brilliant!

[N__K]

[...] but it should not be that complicated.

It might indeed be simpler and easier depending on what pre-made libraries and functionality one has available.

Personally most of scripting I've done were custom solutions for specific tasks, and it was generally easier - well, to me at least - to do things like XML parsing via simple self-written functions. So it's questionable to what extent my advice is useful - please do look for other opinions


That said:

In my experience, the learning and getting to prototyping / proof of concept stage can be relatively quick and fun. It's empowering to see freshly-written functions working, even if it's just a simple thing like getting a string of data from some specific XML field

The hard part is making it into reliable software that can handle all the edge cases while always delivering a desired product/result.

For example, using JavaScript support in Photoshop, even a beginner could probably make in a few weeks/months a script that reads note data from a MusicXML file with "Happy Birthday" melody, and draws basic graphical PMN representation of it into a pre-made A4 300DPI template.

However, if that MusicXML file contained a long orchestral score with transposing instruments, plenty of articulations and so on, and the intention would be to make a multi-page PMN score of every instrument at some arbitrary paper size, that's a heckload of well-functioning code required. That's where amount of work can go into "months, years, decades, Half-Life 3" dimension

[Pashkuli]

Where are the countless users who have embraced this revolution?
Where's the otherwise impossible keyboard performance only achieved with the Pashkuli® you go on about at FB?

Chill, mate. It is WIP (work in progress). The notation has been as well as are the keyboards.
What countless users? I finished the prototypes just about end of covid-lockdown. I did not have to travel, so I had at least three hours per day more.
Fairly recently people tested them. Young people. Those above 40 said it's all useless.
I know what I am doing.

[jancivil]

Y'all remember that one guy who preferred HAZARD to knowing anything and wasted pages in multiple threads arguing against knowing things? Permabanned in a couple weeks.
this surpasses even that, because that one actually did make music. Some of which wasn't bad.

yeah, Pashkuli, d00000d, these are all rhetorical questions. My interest in the reply is at -∞.
This is just some next level ridiculous. I'm just here for the jokes, knock yourself out, do.

[vurt]

Y'all remember that one guy who preferred HAZARD to knowing anything and wasted pages in multiple threads arguing against knowing things? Permabanned in a couple weeks.
this surpasses even that, because that one actually did make music. Some of which wasn't bad.

tbf, what you dont know, cant hurt you

[jancivil]

it can ruin you if the answer requires knowing a thing

[vurt]

dammit! true

[vurt]

Where are the countless users who have embraced this revolution?
Where's the otherwise impossible keyboard performance only achieved with the Pashkuli® you go on about at FB?

Chill, mate. It is WIP (work in progress). The notation has been as well as are the keyboards.
What countless users? I finished the prototypes just about end of covid-lockdown. I did not have to travel, so I had at least three hours per day more.
Fairly recently people tested them. Young people. Those above 40 said it's all useless.
I know what I am doing.

im 47. too late

[Synthack]

So i seen the video of the keyboard and it's kind of neat. I can see sort of how it could work for doing fast chords.

I suppose someone who is a master of music theory will be able to learn this and then decide if it's really better or not though.

Does the controller do MPE and does the notation factor that in as well?