Nexus 4

[MirkoVanHauten]

Sounds like a usual day for Mike

[zvenx]

It was absolutely no reason for lifetime exile. I'm a long time refx customer since Quadrasid and Vanguard. I was just stressed and pissed, because I worked on several commercial projects and Nexus 3 stopped working, because of its copy projection. The support guy seemed also stressed and was also from the beginning very rude and he also ignored my error description. Therefore I got angry and I told him I have a good lawyer. That was also rude from.me, but from a professional company I expect understanding for a stressed customer, who can't work, because of the product! And banning a user forever (!) from support is just
ridiculous! I have no way of contacting them since almost 1 year and I'm not alone! So, there's also no possibility to clarify that, what is wrong with them?

Thanks..
- a fellow bannee?
rsp

[msvs]

https://youtu.be/DCzBDyvXUmk

[m-ac]

but from a professional company...

Let me stop you right there

[GMusic]

https://youtu.be/DCzBDyvXUmk

Cool! Wallet hurting…Must…resist Bartek’s influence…

Unfortunately I see several presets without any tags. Afaik, users can’t even edit the tags. Would be great to see more implementation of the tag system, otherwise it’s just a wasted feature.

By the way, would love to see you and Mirko work on an expansion together. Lo-Fi 2? Melodic House?

[msvs]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

[GMusic]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

Hopefully ReFX can improve on the AI then. Or let sound designers and users modify tags. Whether AI controlled or not, having untagged presets nullifies the potential usefulness of tag system.

[noiseboyuk]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

Genuine question - is that a joke? If not, presumably it's trivial to tag every patch in every expansion.

[GMusic]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

Genuine question - is that a joke? If not, presumably it's trivial to tag every patch in every expansion.

I bet they could even get volunteer(s) here on KVR to tag all the presets in exchange for free expansion. If I recall correctly, I think somebody here tagged the factory presets to be NKS compatible. Or maybe that was for the Omnisphere factory library...either way, they probably spend days worth of time doing all that out of the goodness of being helpful to our fellow musicians here

[DrGonzo]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

Yeah, why not. Tagging is notoriously difficult and depends on the person who does the tagging. Even daily mood. I don't expect the tagging to become a lot better though. Maybe more consistent. I was just playing around with the techno set and came by a dirty synth without the dirty tag. But that's just how it is with Nexus + all other synths.

[GMusic]

the tags are generated automatically by an AI

Yeah, why not. Tagging is notoriously difficult and depends on the person who does the tagging. Even daily mood. I don't expect the tagging to become a lot better though. Maybe more consistent. I was just playing around with the techno set and came by a dirty synth without the dirty tag. But that's just how it is with Nexus + all other synths.

Well, when they advertise the librarian as the top, #1 listed feature on the Nexus 4 page, I would imagine the consumer should expect it to be implemented and functional. Especially if you are asking Nexus 3 users to pay $99 for Nexus 4 upgrade. How can you "quickly find what you're looking for" using tags when many of the presets aren't even tagged?

https://refx.com/nexus/

"Advanced Librarian
We have added some really cool features and quality-of-life improvements to the already amazing librarian in NEXUS4.

...

Color-coded tags, bookmarks, favorites, and a dedicated location for user presets.

...

Quickly find what you're looking for with instant sound preview, search-while-you-type, filter by category and tags, and so much more."

[DrGonzo]

Well, when they advertise the librarian as the top, #1 listed feature on the Nexus 4 page, I would imagine the consumer should expect it to be implemented and functional. Especially if you are asking Nexus 3 users to pay $99 for Nexus 4 upgrade. How can you "quickly find what you're looking for" using tags when many of the presets aren't even tagged?

Listen, I'm not saying you are wrong. I absolutely agree with your points. But what I am saying is that tagging is insanely difficult, so effing difficult that I can't see an AI screw up the tagging more than a human can. A clean sawtooth pluck with reverb is easy to tag. A slightly saturated lead is not. The sound designer might feel its not dirty at all - because he knows when things really get dirty. But the user might feel it's a dirty sound. And another user have another way of measuring dirt and feels that's not dirty at all but just saturated. And that's just one tag and one library. You go to a different library - maybe one that is really dirty by nature - then that sound we just talked about would probably not even be regarded as dirty.

I can imagine an AI being able to do it better than a human - but then we're talking about serious AI here with capabilities to not just read the parameters of the sound but also scan the actual audio itself. And how do you deal with a sound where the dirt comes in with the modulation wheel? Should the AI take that into consideration?

It's insanely difficult and depends on so many variables. Again - I'm not saying you are wrong in any way. But as a sound designer who have been tagging sounds for 10+ years all I am saying is that it's a mess on every platform.

And to complicate things further - our perception of sounds are always changing. A sound that was regarded as "hard" five years ago can in some regards be seen as "pop" these days.

/C

[GMusic]

Well, when they advertise the librarian as the top, #1 listed feature on the Nexus 4 page, I would imagine the consumer should expect it to be implemented and functional. Especially if you are asking Nexus 3 users to pay $99 for Nexus 4 upgrade. How can you "quickly find what you're looking for" using tags when many of the presets aren't even tagged?

Listen, I'm not saying you are wrong. I absolutely agree with your points.
/C

My apology, I was not exactly countering your post and didn't take your post as "anti-tagging" I see where you are coming from. It's fine if AI is used to tag, but it should at least be somewhat effective/helpful, consistent, and give tags to each preset. Additionally, it would be nice to allow users to modify the tags to their taste. I don't think you can even modify tags when you save a user preset...

Otherwise, if it's not going to be a complete feature, I'd rather just have the option to hide the colorful tag column all together.

[msvs]

DrGonzo is exactly right. It was just a matter of consistance. We tried humans but the result was too random. The AI scans the sounds on FFT base and several other algos and is neutral in its decision. in my opinion a Tagging MUST be done by always the same ONE person (or an AI), otherwise it gets too clustered. In Avenger its me, doing that from the beginning on, checking every released preset to its tags to MY personal consistant feeling of the available tags.

[noiseboyuk]

DrGonzo is exactly right. It was just a matter of consistance. We tried humans but the result was too random. The AI scans the sounds on FFT base and several other algos and is neutral in its decision.

OK, great. So given that we were told that old expansions would never be tagged because of the man-hours, that problem now seems to have been resolved by a machine. Can we look forward to all the historic presets and expansions being AI-tagged?