Waves Diamond or Horizon or whate else ?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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sin night
KVRian
1392 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:32 pm

You only need WUP if:
- you want to run a second license on a second machine after the first year (note: you can always move licenses using the cloud or authorizing a pendrive)
- you need technical support after the first year
- Waves releases a new major version after the first year and you need that version for compability reasons (new os/computer, new daw…)
- you want to sell your licenses to someone else


You’ll end up spending money for WUP (or on to upgrade to a bundle, that gives you another year of WUP coverage and a few new plugins… depends on what’s cheaper!), but it’s not a subscription, you can use your licenses as long as you wish and as long as it’s compatible with your machine. You can decide if and when to upgrade at your pace, as with every other perpetual license. But when you need compatibility (which is a bit if an issue with Mac), you’ll end up paying for maintenace.

For example, I think you can run Waves V12 plugins on BigSur/M1 Mac, but if you want to run them natively instead of using Rosetta2, you need V13. In a situation like this, you’ll need WUP coverage / upgrading to the current version.
Same if you want to upgrade your daw software and there’s a bug/incompatibily with a previous previous version of Waves plugins: big fixes are only for the current major version, so you need to pay for WUP.
If there’s any major technological change coming, you may expect a new major version of Waves plugin (at least in recent years; they stayed a long time at V9).


WUP has a maximum cap of 240 and the price is calculated on the retail price of the plugins (not the actual price… they are always discounted!), so it adds up rather quickly (you may buy a license for 29 and then have a WUP ranging from let’s say 7 to 15 - I don’t remember the exact prices when I upgraded the last time). There’s a cap of 240 on WUP, once you’ll reach that, it’s worth to include all your licenses on the same WUP purchase.
Sometimes there’s a sale in WUP, last time I think I could have upgraded for something like 180 (just to give you an idea).
Another way to get WUP is by upgrading to a bundle and it can be cheaper / more effective: I had a bunch of single licenses and, when the Platinum bundle went on sale last time, my upgrade was around 180 I think (maybe something less), so I upgraded and added a bunch of plugins to my collection (I don’t really need them, but I need the latest version for compatibility reasons). Right now, Horizon is on sale and my upgrade price from Platinum is around 70: I’d probably pay more if I wasn’t under WUP coverage, but I think it would still be less than the promotional price of Horizon. I’m not interested in the plugins added by Horizon and I don’t need additional WUP at the moment, but you get the idea of how it works.
Also, I’m not sure but I think Horizon is one of the biggest bundles, so the next time you’ll need WUP you won’t have much options to upgrade to a bigger bundle…

In my opinion WUP is a convoluted pricing system and to be honest I’m not too fond on it, but at least you know the software is maintained over the years. And devs have to finance that maintenance somehow (either by selling new licenses, by selling upgrades/maintenance or by going subscription).

It’s up to you to decide if that is worth to you and if you’re ok with having to pay for WUP at a certain point. Keep in mind that WUP is “unavoidable”, there will be a day when you’ll need it (it’s not “if” but “when”), unless you decide to stop using those plugins and look for alternatives.

Opinions on WUP are quite strong (and I’m also not too fond on it, even if I buy WUP when I need it); I think the key is knowing about this business model before buying anything.
If you’re not ok with WUP, you’d better look into something else and avoid Waves.

DCrown
KVRist
154 posts since 1 Jul, 2021

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:24 pm

Waves Diamond is offered for lowest price ever. I have compared it to Horizon and they seem to be símilar, Diamond has some restauration plugins.

Leo1999
KVRist
Topic Starter
38 posts since 24 Nov, 2021

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:34 am

sin night wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:32 pm You only need WUP if:
- you want to run a second license on a second machine after the first year (note: you can always move licenses using the cloud or authorizing a pendrive)
- you need technical support after the first year
- Waves releases a new major version after the first year and you need that version for compability reasons (new os/computer, new daw…)
- you want to sell your licenses to someone else....


Opinions on WUP are quite strong (and I’m also not too fond on it, even if I buy WUP when I need it); I think the key is knowing about this business model before buying anything.
If you’re not ok with WUP, you’d better look into something else and avoid Waves.
Thanks a lot for this information. I did not know the exact charges.
What I do not like is that Waves seems to hide this information somewhere
not easily to find. When you are a newbie you might not know it, so when someone
buys some Waves plugin during checkout an information about WUP would be more transparent and fair.
Afaik the current version do not run on WIN7 any more, but you can still run old versions like V10 on new windows versions, so you do not have to upgrade.

I am very surprised about the charges, though.
If you had Waves Horizon and some more Waves plugins, let´s say 100 Waves plugins,
you would have to pay only 2 USD / plugin for upgrade !!!

When IK Multimedia upgrades Amplitube you have to pay the same full price like everyone, even when you already have Amplitube. There is no special upgrade price afaik. Sonible smart eq was upgraded about 9 months after release and upgrade price for smart eq owners was 30 € !!! I have not upgraded. You buy something and a short time later they want to charge you again!

So I do not understand the complaints about Waves WUP at all now,
Waves always has special deals and even their newly released SSL console emu
is 30 USD only! They do not play stupid games like PA. Plugin intro price USD 129, list price USD 349, 6 months later you get it for 49, one year later for 29 USD.

User avatar
6track
Banned
26 posts since 18 Dec, 2021

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:50 am

Diamond is a great opportunity to get a ton of classic quality plugins for a tiny amount.
$49.99 was an upgrade for me in everyPlugin (I also took 7 free plugins).

I don't care about WUP as long as plugins can technically work. I still use version 9.3 on Windows 7 for compatibility with older projects/old soft (9.3 is also the last version that worked on Windows XP).

User avatar
sin night
KVRian
1392 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:42 am

Leo1999 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:34 am I am very surprised about the charges, though.
If you had Waves Horizon and some more Waves plugins, let´s say 100 Waves plugins,
you would have to pay only 2 USD / plugin for upgrade !!!
If you have a big bundle and/or a ton of plugins and buy WUP for all of them at the same time, the price per plugin is low (note: you get WUP only on the plugins you include in your WUP purchase or in the upgrade to a bigger bundle). If you don't have too many plugins (I think a lot of people have just a few singles), the price per plugin is higher and not so favourable. WUP works when you're really into Waves' products.
Regardless the price per plugin, you have to consider that every few years you'll end up paying for WUP, in exactly the same way you keep your daw current.

There's also another thing to consider: do you need all those plugins? I don't, even if I own them (because of the WUP scheme), I usually go for my few go-to plugins...

Leo1999 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:34 am They do not play stupid games like PA. Plugin intro price USD 129, list price USD 349, 6 months later you get it for 49, one year later for 29 USD.
Waves plays those prices games too. Their new SSL channel strip was supposed to go higher in price, I don't know why it's still at intro price. Their offers do change through the year, although you can often find things at 29-39$.

User avatar
Aloysius
KVRAF
36455 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:51 am

Well last time I updated for over $200. A week or two later I started getting WUP renewal notices. I wrote to Waves several times and said that this cannot be. Three rep's later, I finally gave up. Waves wanted me to pay another $200+ to WUP everything that was expiring. There was no grace period. No compromise. Nothing. Unless they release something so out of this world that I can't resist, I'll never purchase another Waves plugin again. In the past I had found their Support sometimes helpful, sometimes smart arsed and now robotic.
Hi-de-Hi!

Caine123
KVRAF
7167 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:03 am

Aloysius wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:51 am Well last time I updated for over $200. A week or two later I started getting WUP renewal notices. I wrote to Waves several times and said that this cannot be. Three rep's later I finally gave up. Waves wanted me to pay another $200+ to WUP everything that was expiring. There was no grace period. No compromise. Nothing. Unless they release something so out of this world that I can't resist, I'll never purchase another Waves plugin again. In the past I had found their Support sometimes helpful, sometimes smart arsed and now robotic.
their price policy seems really like sell plugins cheap and push WUP WUP WUP :D

i know when i began with vsts WAVES were so GOLDEN/1st class praised, and then i got them and was like, wow i got something big now, but a long time i wonder why they trashed their image? it seems their plugins are still very often Great(?) but their licensing and versions are plain BAD

i didnt check the market but it seems Lo AIR, REN BASS, SSL BUS COMP and many more plugins are still great?
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

User avatar
Aloysius
KVRAF
36455 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:43 am

Well, Plugin Alliance have some great SSL stuff, so do SSL themselves. RBass etc of course are cool too imho. I'm on the lookout for alternatives all the time though.
Hi-de-Hi!

Caine123
KVRAF
7167 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:28 am

Aloysius wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:43 am Well, Plugin Alliance have some great SSL stuff, so do SSL themselves. RBass etc of course are cool too imho. I'm on the lookout for alternatives all the time though.
yeah i try to get alternatives to some of their plugins, i want better supported/and less-headache plugins instead of this crap what waves do
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

briefcasemanx
KVRian
1108 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:29 am

If you a Waves bundle, the Abbey Roads collection is what you want.

If I have to WUP to upgrade my 100 waves plugins when Windows 13 or whatever comes out, so be it. I don't know why anyone would pay for wup every year or whatever.

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