Cool new plug in format on the way -- CLAP

[audiojunkie]

Again, also, in case this hasn't sunk in yet or maybe people haven't understood the concept: CLAP is designed to speed up VST3 development for developers and minimise common issues. So, what's not to like about that?

So CLAP is a replacement for JUCE, not VST3?

Is “format” being misused in the thread title?

Whaaa???

No worries. The concept is not easy to grasp.

Of course it is a new format, so it falls in the same categories as VST or AU. But due to its liberal license and its portability it can become an intermediate layer between it and other formats, whose support then profits from the robustness, clarity and simplicity of CLAP.

I understand the concept. I was just surprised that someone could be so confused about it all. I suspect once Jamcat understands the big picture he’ll not be anti-CLAP.

[Urs]

I understand the concept.

I know, I had hoped that was obvious

[audiojunkie]

I understand the concept.

I know, I had hoped that was obvious

One can never be too careful when communicating via text.

[hugoderwolf]

Of course it is a new format, so it falls in the same categories as VST or AU. But due to its liberal license and its portability it can become an intermediate layer between it and other formats, whose support then profits from the robustness, clarity and simplicity of CLAP.

Most new software development starts with robustness, clarity and simplicity, but usually once the thing gets all the features that people want, it becomes wonky, complex and bloated. I hope CLAP is the exception. Godspeed!

[cthonophonic]

Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from.

That's kind of a stretch isn't it? Not to venture too far into the realm of counterfactual history here, but if it wasn't Steinberg, it could easily have been someone else. The necessary ideas were already floating around in the early 90s. Third party commercial and non-commercial plugins had already existed for graphics applications (thinking of Photoshop specifically here) for several years when VST came out. Java applets and web browser plugins were already a thing too in 1996, so even publishing an API/SDK that anyone could use to target multiple platforms was not really novel.

VST3 may have been a (giant) misstep but that doesn't undo all the amazing things that Steinberg's standard has given to all of us. A little respect and gratitude wouldn't go astray.

Steinberg surely did a great thing in introducing VST, but it's hard to say that audio plugins (and the market for them) would never have existed at all without one specific company. They pushed the idea forward at the right time, and they had the skill and scale to make it successful. Respect, sure, but they weren't doing it for charity, and I don't see why anyone (user or developer) owes them any kind of reverence. Maybe in 20 years, if the CLAP developers succeed, we'll be having a similar discussion about the problems of CLAP3 (though probably with more puns about STDs).

[AnX]

Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from.

That's kind of a stretch isn't it? Not to venture too far into the realm of counterfactual history here, but if it wasn't Steinberg, it could easily have been someone else.

But it wasn't...

[audiojunkie]

Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from.

That's kind of a stretch isn't it? Not to venture too far into the realm of counterfactual history here, but if it wasn't Steinberg, it could easily have been someone else. The necessary ideas were already floating around in the early 90s. Third party commercial and non-commercial plugins had already existed for graphics applications (thinking of Photoshop specifically here) for several years when VST came out. Java applets and web browser plugins were already a thing too in 1996, so even publishing an API/SDK that anyone could use to target multiple platforms was not really novel.

VST3 may have been a (giant) misstep but that doesn't undo all the amazing things that Steinberg's standard has given to all of us. A little respect and gratitude wouldn't go astray.

Steinberg surely did a great thing in introducing VST, but it's hard to say that audio plugins (and the market for them) would never have existed at all without one specific company. They pushed the idea forward at the right time, and they had the skill and scale to make it successful. Respect, sure, but they weren't doing it for charity, and I don't see why anyone (user or developer) owes them any kind of reverence. Maybe in 20 years, if the CLAP developers succeed, we'll be having a similar discussion about the problems of CLAP3 (though probably with more puns about STDs).

Yes, Gratitude for inventing VST. But how can Steinberg expect any respect after the sneaky legal moves they’ve been making the last few years? Bad stewards....

But, I digress. Back to the topic at hand!

Edit: My comment was aimed at Bones.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

If we're acknowledging history, let's actually acknowledge history.

VST was not always the dominant plugin format. It overtook DirectX plugins (DX/DXI) because VST2 had clear advantages and Microsoft was obviously uninterested in improving its existing platform to meet the needs of users and developers.

Now the shoe is on the other foot. Steinberg has put itself in the same position as 90s Microsoft. It doesn't continue to deserve praise for disrupting the market after transforming into a tone-deaf incumbent. Developers have pleaded with it for over a decade, trying to convince it to change course. Yet there it goes, full steam towards that iceberg. It's okay to let it sink.

[BONES]

Not to venture too far into the realm of counterfactual history here, but if it wasn't Steinberg, it could easily have been someone else.

But it wasn't, it was Steinberg. That's just a fact.

The necessary ideas were already floating around in the early 90s. Third party commercial and non-commercial plugins had already existed for graphics applications (thinking of Photoshop specifically here) for several years when VST came out.

And 3DS Max was built entirely around the concept of everything being a plugin. What's your point? Which other applications will Photoshop plugins work in? It's one thing to build a proprietary plugin system for your own product, quite another to share that standard with all your competitors.

Steinberg surely did a great thing in introducing VST, but it's hard to say that audio plugins (and the market for them) would never have existed at all without one specific company.

You seem to be the only person suggesting that.

[cthonophonic]

Steinberg surely did a great thing in introducing VST, but it's hard to say that audio plugins (and the market for them) would never have existed at all without one specific company.

You seem to be the only person suggesting that.

I seem to remember someone saying:

Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from.

but I can't remember who. It was all so long ago now, and it's all lost to time.

[BONES]

All of which is completely true. For reference, look how big the Photoshop plugin market is. Or the 3DS Max plugin market. Nobody knows how it might have turned out otherwise but we absolutely know that we have Steinberg to thank for the way it has turned out. But what I think is most likely is that without VST, or if Steinberg had kept it to themselves, we'd probably have half-a-dozen proprietary formats, no universal format, and the market would be a tiny fraction of the size it is now. Look to ProTools and Reason as indicators of how a lot of companies would prefer to lock you into a walled garden. Steinberg chose not to do this and we should be thankful.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

The only "gratitude" Steinberg has use for is the kind that comes from your wallet. It's a brand. You can't hurt its feelings and you can't accomplish anything by making it the object of your affections. Are you going to praise Apple next for its accomplishments in user interface design? Maybe smile a little every time you click on a radio button? There's no point. Thank the people who worked there, maybe. But not Apple, and not Steinberg.

[DarkStar]

I must have missed this, but what are the advantages of a CLAP plug-in over its VST2 / VST3 / AU / AAX versions?

[Super Piano Hater 64]

I must have missed this, but what are the advantages of a CLAP plug-in over its VST2 / VST3 / AU / AAX versions?

It has polyphonic modulation (like VST3) and also has first-class support for MIDI events (like every plugin format except VST3). The feature set isn't hugely impressive just in terms of what it allows plugins to do. The big advantages come from how easy it is to write CLAP plugins (as opposed to the Jenga tower of C++ classes you see with some other formats), the clarity of the documentation, and perhaps most importantly, the license. It is automatically licensed to anyone who uses the SDK, as long as they credit the CLAP developers. You don't need to pay a license fee, or hire a lawyer to talk to someone else's lawyers. You just download it and go.

[MirkoVanHauten]

I think scanning plugins without instantiation was in the ballpark as well as a host/plugin threading model for proper multicore handling. "host provided mircotuning" is also something that'll be pretty handy.