Cool new plug in format on the way -- CLAP

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kylie
KVRist
453 posts since 10 Jan, 2008

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:02 am

Urs, thanks for your time to take it in consideration at least, and for being around to listen what your customers want.
I appreciate that! Would love to hear you make this come true.

Meanwhile, have a nice and pleasant start of '22 and get this thing up and running :)

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AnX
Banned
10816 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:19 am

Urs wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:44 am
kylie wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:19 am
Urs wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:29 am
kylie wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:42 amRelease u-he C4T without "the other format" but with clap instead, and we will believe it.
Yes, we had similar ideas.
I guess it would be a tad too optimistic to expect it this year... ?! :lol:
Depends on your timezone... :hihi:
Twilight :hihi:

soundmodel
KVRian
788 posts since 28 May, 2010 from Finland

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:42 am

Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?

I thought having to rely on JUCE was bad enough so there was WDL-OL. But having a proprietary format. Isn't this sort of like as if .txt required a license every time it's used?

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Urs
u-he
26368 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:09 pm

Well, attempts have been made before... to me it just seemed like too much of design by committee. Which is why the guys wo are involved with CLAP now work with a pretty closed group of maybe 20 people.

camsr
KVRAF
7170 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:42 pm

soundmodel wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:42 am Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?
Was the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary? Yes.
Did it do most of the tasks that anyone using them, wanted them to do? Yes.

So what is 25 years, to you soundmodel, of a working API without being indepentently developed meaning?

I guess that means it worked. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

soundmodel
KVRian
788 posts since 28 May, 2010 from Finland

Post Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:49 pm

camsr wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:42 pm
soundmodel wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:42 am Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?
Was the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary? Yes.
Did it do most of the tasks that anyone using them, wanted them to do? Yes.

So what is 25 years, to you soundmodel, of a working API without being indepentently developed meaning?

I guess that means it worked. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
At what cost?

Some guesses, even when I'm novice:
  • Reduced effort on Linux platform
  • Major software becoming "dependent" on this format for distribution
  • People have already invested a lot of money around this format, why change now? So "if my DAW and my favorite plug-in vendors are not going to support this, then I will not care"
  • A full ecosystem reliant on this format and weak ways out, since it's already so big (who wants to jump to Linux world now?)
MS Windows has also worked, but it's catastrophic situation now that so much software is already for it.

matt42
KVRian
1251 posts since 9 Jan, 2006

Post Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:19 am

camsr wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:42 pmWas the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary?
Yes. Did they block any new devs from ever using it? Yes. Did they bring this on themselves? I’d say yes they did

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jamcat
KVRAF
2088 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:50 am

Urs wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:33 pm Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.
But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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Urs
u-he
26368 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:57 am

jamcat wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:50 am
Urs wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:33 pm Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.
But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.
Really? :o Do tell!

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teilo
KVRian
1408 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:08 am

jamcat wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:50 am
Urs wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:33 pm Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.
But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.
When interfacing with dodgy DAWs, always wrap the CLAP.
Apple Silicon Native Audio Software Database: https://asaudio.tech. KVR Discussion Topic.

schwa
KVRist
104 posts since 28 Aug, 2007 from NY

Post Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:25 am

karrikuh wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:00 pm One thing I noted and was wondering about is the number of initialization steps required to create a plugin instance and make it ready for processing audio. There is:
clap_plugin_entry->init()
clap_plugin_entry->createPlugin()
clap_plugin->init()
clap_plugin->activate()
clap_plugin->start_processing()
I know this post is a month old, but this is similar to how other plugin formats work. In VST you create the factory, then create the component, then initialize the component, then activate the component, then tell the component to start processing. Each of those states is meaningfully different.

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AsPeeXXXVIII
KVRian
635 posts since 17 Aug, 2015 from Finland

Post Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:27 am

I'm intrigued.
My solo projects:
Hekkräiser (experimental) | MFG38 (electronic/soundtrack) | The Santtu Pesonen Project (metal/prog)

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audiojunkie
KVRAF
3310 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah

Post Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:24 pm

jamcat wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:56 pm
Urs wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:25 pm Again, also, in case this hasn't sunk in yet or maybe people haven't understood the concept: CLAP is designed to speed up VST3 development for developers and minimise common issues. So, what's not to like about that?
So CLAP is a replacement for JUCE, not VST3?

Is “format” being misused in the thread title?
Whaaa???
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
13407 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:22 pm

Markus Krause wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:39 am @Anx,
as usual you're posting off-topic garbage, trying to provocate and start an argument. That's why all your comments will be ignored. All your attempts to derail the tread will be reported to the moderation.
No, on this point Dave is spot-on. Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from. VST3 may have been a (giant) misstep but that doesn't undo all the amazing things that Steinberg's standard has given to all of us. A little respect and gratitude wouldn't go astray.

That said, I'm all for competition and if CLAP lights a fire under Steinberg, we all win. However, as a user I am perfectly happy with VST so I'm not overly excited.
starflakeprj wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:47 amWith that attitude the electric car would never have seen the light of the day.
Actually, electric cars were around before petrol powered cars and, until around 1910, there were roughly as many electric cars on the streets as there were petrol cars. It was only when somebody perfected the carburettor that internal combustion cars took off.

There is also little or no new technology in most BEVs today. Tesla, for example, deliberately use off-the-shelf components to keep costs down, which is why their battery packs use the same Panasonic cells you'd find in a laptop battery (although they have been tweaking the chemistry of late). The only reason EVs are taking off now is that ICE powered vehicles are being regulated out of existence. On a level playing field, EVs simply cannot cut it.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win11(64), UR44C | Studio One | JP6K, Union, GR-8, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Olga, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, Thorn, Odyssey, Equator, VG Iron | Uno Pro, Uno, Rocket.

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Urs
u-he
26368 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:10 am

audiojunkie wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:24 pm
jamcat wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:56 pm
Urs wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:25 pm Again, also, in case this hasn't sunk in yet or maybe people haven't understood the concept: CLAP is designed to speed up VST3 development for developers and minimise common issues. So, what's not to like about that?
So CLAP is a replacement for JUCE, not VST3?

Is “format” being misused in the thread title?
Whaaa???
No worries. The concept is not easy to grasp.

Of course it is a new format, so it falls in the same categories as VST or AU. But due to its liberal license and its portability it can become an intermediate layer between it and other formats, whose support then profits from the robustness, clarity and simplicity of CLAP.

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