Cool new plug in format on the way -- CLAP

[kylie]

Urs, thanks for your time to take it in consideration at least, and for being around to listen what your customers want.
I appreciate that! Would love to hear you make this come true.

Meanwhile, have a nice and pleasant start of '22 and get this thing up and running

[AnX]

Release u-he C4T without "the other format" but with clap instead, and we will believe it.

Yes, we had similar ideas.

I guess it would be a tad too optimistic to expect it this year... ?!

Depends on your timezone...

Twilight

[soundmodel]

Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?

I thought having to rely on JUCE was bad enough so there was WDL-OL. But having a proprietary format. Isn't this sort of like as if .txt required a license every time it's used?

[Urs]

Well, attempts have been made before... to me it just seemed like too much of design by committee. Which is why the guys wo are involved with CLAP now work with a pretty closed group of maybe 20 people.

[camsr]

Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?

Was the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary? Yes.
Did it do most of the tasks that anyone using them, wanted them to do? Yes.

So what is 25 years, to you soundmodel, of a working API without being indepentently developed meaning?

I guess that means it worked. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[soundmodel]

Now that I've thought about it. Isn't it a bit surprising that it has taken 1996-2021 (25 years?) for someone to realize that most/all independently developed plug-ins have relied on a proprietary "base" to do so?

Was the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary? Yes.
Did it do most of the tasks that anyone using them, wanted them to do? Yes.

So what is 25 years, to you soundmodel, of a working API without being indepentently developed meaning?

I guess that means it worked. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

At what cost?

Some guesses, even when I'm novice:

• Reduced effort on Linux platform
• Major software becoming "dependent" on this format for distribution
• People have already invested a lot of money around this format, why change now? So "if my DAW and my favorite plug-in vendors are not going to support this, then I will not care"
• A full ecosystem reliant on this format and weak ways out, since it's already so big (who wants to jump to Linux world now?)

MS Windows has also worked, but it's catastrophic situation now that so much software is already for it.

[matt42]

Was the most popular spec, VST2, proprietary?

Yes. Did they block any new devs from ever using it? Yes. Did they bring this on themselves? I’d say yes they did

[jamcat]

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.

But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.

[Urs]

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.

But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.

Really? Do tell!

[teilo]

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, the Clap jokes typically die after two or three days.

But now you've added a whole new angle with all of this talk about putting it in a wrapper.

When interfacing with dodgy DAWs, always wrap the CLAP.

[schwa]

One thing I noted and was wondering about is the number of initialization steps required to create a plugin instance and make it ready for processing audio. There is:
clap_plugin_entry->init()
clap_plugin_entry->createPlugin()
clap_plugin->init()
clap_plugin->activate()
clap_plugin->start_processing()

I know this post is a month old, but this is similar to how other plugin formats work. In VST you create the factory, then create the component, then initialize the component, then activate the component, then tell the component to start processing. Each of those states is meaningfully different.

[AsPeeXXXVIII]

I'm intrigued.

[audiojunkie]

Again, also, in case this hasn't sunk in yet or maybe people haven't understood the concept: CLAP is designed to speed up VST3 development for developers and minimise common issues. So, what's not to like about that?

So CLAP is a replacement for JUCE, not VST3?

Is “format” being misused in the thread title?

Whaaa???

[BONES]

@Anx,
as usual you're posting off-topic garbage, trying to provocate and start an argument. That's why all your comments will be ignored. All your attempts to derail the tread will be reported to the moderation.

No, on this point Dave is spot-on. Without Steinberg there would be no VST, no massive plugin market for you and others to earn a living from. VST3 may have been a (giant) misstep but that doesn't undo all the amazing things that Steinberg's standard has given to all of us. A little respect and gratitude wouldn't go astray.

That said, I'm all for competition and if CLAP lights a fire under Steinberg, we all win. However, as a user I am perfectly happy with VST so I'm not overly excited.

With that attitude the electric car would never have seen the light of the day.

Actually, electric cars were around before petrol powered cars and, until around 1910, there were roughly as many electric cars on the streets as there were petrol cars. It was only when somebody perfected the carburettor that internal combustion cars took off.

There is also little or no new technology in most BEVs today. Tesla, for example, deliberately use off-the-shelf components to keep costs down, which is why their battery packs use the same Panasonic cells you'd find in a laptop battery (although they have been tweaking the chemistry of late). The only reason EVs are taking off now is that ICE powered vehicles are being regulated out of existence. On a level playing field, EVs simply cannot cut it.

[Urs]

Again, also, in case this hasn't sunk in yet or maybe people haven't understood the concept: CLAP is designed to speed up VST3 development for developers and minimise common issues. So, what's not to like about that?

So CLAP is a replacement for JUCE, not VST3?

Is “format” being misused in the thread title?

Whaaa???

No worries. The concept is not easy to grasp.

Of course it is a new format, so it falls in the same categories as VST or AU. But due to its liberal license and its portability it can become an intermediate layer between it and other formats, whose support then profits from the robustness, clarity and simplicity of CLAP.