Bitwish report - January 2022

[reflekshun]

I think the structure of the feature requests on Bitwish (There are about 6-7 clear questions to answer for every feature request), would be an awesome and useful structure for Bitwig to use for feature requests. A lot more clear information here, well articulated on what users are wanting in the future of Bitwig.

Tbh I think it'd be a good idea to send all of those top requested feature page contents in feature request emails to Bitwig. They're just clearer than I suspect the average feature request email would be.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

you just made 2 denigrating assumptions in 1 post.
1. BS isn't capable to process feature requests
2. most users aren't smart enough to request a feature well enough.

again: it is not that they don't get the FRs or that they don't understand them
they just have their own agenda; which is smart.

[icaria36]

@SpaceCadetOnLeave I actually agree with many points you make. I don't think you need to keep polarizing this conversation, sounding so angry, facepalming yourself. It's ok, we are just discussing a list of features suggested for a DAW, which for most people is just a tool to enjoy music and have fun. Bitwish is a lot about enjoying our Bitwig love and having fun. Let's just have an enjoyable conversation?

Bitwig is doing everything you say they should be doing to process feedback. They also have their roadmap, as you say. They are doing all this very well, and the proof of that is that all of us are here, using Bitwig and renewing our licenses.

The fact that all of the above is right doesn't mean that anything else is wrong, though.

Bitwig is used by different audiences in different ways. Bitwish (just like this KVR forum, the Discord server and the subreddit) attracts mainly a specific audience that is not representative of the totality of Bitwig customers. But... "real musicians" don't represent the totality of Bitwig customers either, nor whoever just wants to plug a guitar and add some drums and synths. This is why, indeed, the Bitwig team listens to different audiences in different ways, has their feedback database, and drives their roadmap forward based on this feedback, their market research, and of course their own vision.

Now, about this audience of chatty Bitwig users who love to discuss missing features, who probably have an above average knowledge of Bitwig possibilities, and who also probably have an above average knowledge of how Bitwig features compare to other competitive products... These people exist, buy licenses, go to other places and talk about Bitwig... When a current or a potential Bitwig customer has questions and goes to the internet to find them, more often than not this audience appears at the top of search results. Also, even people who are not active in online communities may welcome the fact that one exists when using or considering a product.

This is where a community wishlist and collateral conversations may be useful to the Bitwig team, existing Bitwig users, and potential ones too. I started Bitwish the day after the 4.1 beta 1 release because a delivery of fresh great inspiring software was followed by a lot of negative feedback, repeated arguments, nothing much useful or inspiring in my opinion. Bitwish is an attempt to channel all this community knowledge and energy in a positive, constructive, and collaborative direction. An attempt to enjoy and have fun while learning about how others want to use Bitwig and what they are missing.

It's ok if some people don't like this. This doesn't make it wrong. And as I said, we'll do whatever the Bitwig team thinks that is more useful for them. Meanwhile, I believe that Bitwish is being useful for some purposes and in the context of certain audiences. Just like this forum and other places where people meet to talk about Bitwig.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

i'm not angry,
(although maybe a bit about the teacher tone you use, as if it the matter is difficult.) 4U

no, just a bit annoyed by this weird high school group mentality/hysteria which might be standing in the way of what really is needed (past sensitivities).
any attention to voted "arguments" is a distraction and radiates negativity towards the devs.

plus, it's just when individuals who have not much to do with creating music make other people who have not much to do with creating music enthusiastic to vote about functions in a program designed to create music is just silly.
as soon as you have a "community" you have leaders and followers, especially if you start to mixing up the target audience.
demanding a voice as "a group" will damage more than do any good, especially in this setting.

if you don't get that, well, ok, cheers and whatever
i'm just here to see if the new version is out already because my youngest daughter still has some old projects made in BS and has some problems with random engine crashing.

people please, just keep things sane and send your requests directly to support@bitwig.com

[xbitz]

You'll just start speculating about what's going to be put on the roadmap next rather than what's going to be put into the product. There's nothing in it for the developers.

nope, it's about these requests (esp. the first five of them)

not about "what's going to be put into the product", if one of them would be seen on some list (no date or whatever) one day we would count on the others, that's all, dunno MSEG was requested 5+ years ago maybe (for ex.) I always gonna push that one sry I'm happy with Bitwig not complaining just clarifying

[antic604]

people please, just keep things sane and send your requests directly to support@bitwig.com

That's very suboptimal for both sides:

- for devs - because it overloads their e-mail, with hundreds of feature requests desribed in various level of clarity and detail, often for exactly the same feature just named or imagined differently - Bitwish tries to unify the format and merge multiple requests regarding the same feature;

- for users - we get no feedback other than the default "thanks for your suggestion" most of the time, which maybe isn't different from Bitwish (devs don't reply there, either) but at least we can get a sense of whether the feature we want is wanted by other people too by means of voting - if feature X has 5 votes, but feature Y has 50 votes, then it's likely (not certain, but likely) that Y will be implemented sooner, because a) more people want it, b) devs can see that more people want it. Also, reading such a list you might stumble on something you didn't even knew you wanted (or that it even existed) and vote on it, whereas you'd never send such request via e-mail, because you wouldn't be able to verbalise it yourself;

...plus, it's just when individuals who have not much to do with creating music make other people who have not much to do with creating music enthusiastic to vote about functions in a program designed to create music is just silly.

Well, apparently those people who do make music are already satisfied and don't care if new features are added?

I guess we all work under assumption that new features that are being requested will not replace or destroy anything that already exist, so new features should be "transparent" for them. Looking at v4.x - audio comping, operators, new MIDI FX devices, randomised expressions, etc. are all transparent to my workflow until I deliberately look for them.

So I don't think it's "silly" to ask those that know Bitwig and other DAWs deeply for feedback.

What's "silly" is to imply that if e.g. 100 people who record their voice & guitar with a bit of EQ and compression are already happy with the product, then e.g. 5 people doing complex electronic music with a wall of physical gear should be happy as well. And it's usually the latter group that hangs out in forums, groups or Discord servers.

Lastly, I don't know why Bitwish bothers you so much? Are you jealous that Bitwig devs contacted and spoke with them, not with you? Are you jealous that someone else came up with the idea and sacrificed their private time to do it for free? Do you feel threatened that now your own feature requests - that don't align with Bitwish's - won't get implemented?

I don't get why you're attacking great and selfless initiative.

[pdxindy]

nope, it's about these requests (esp. the first five of them)

Only 1 of the top 5 would be in my top 5... that would be Midi Comping

Otherwise, my top 5 would be:

Groove tools
Tempo mapping
Step Sequencer like Logic
An Arrangement Track that can sequence Launcher Scenes.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

I don't get why you're attacking great and selfless initiative.

• first antic604 on a side note, i want to say i respect how you manage to answer questions on this and other forums and so resolve many problems people have using DAWs.
  respect dude nothing but respect (this has not always been like that) .

but,
i'm not attacking anything, i just have an opinion.
in my opinion you just can't increase the importance of a feature by voting, especially if the major part of the voters aren't using the software as it is supposed to be used, apparently, und most likely is being led by social structures(i.e. forums) with "leaders" and "followers".
also just a very small percentage of the total of users.

simple...

i don't get that you don't see how important it is that your request doesn't has to pass and be judged by those social structures with no references what so ever.

the bs philosophy must be leading. but maybe they are out of ideas, i don't know, could be.

people please, just send your requests directly to support@bitwig.com

[antic604]

people please, just send your requests directly to support@bitwig.com

We do. All the time. But for majority of us it amounts to nothing, unless you're Polarity or someone equally prominent in Bitwig world...

By participating in Bitwish or forum polls, we at least get a feeling - perhaps illusory, but still - of not being alone and of getting heard.

And apparently Bitwig devs noticed Bitwish initiative, so I'd say hurray for all involved.

[antic604]

...I don't get that you don't see how important it is that your request doesn't has to pass and be judged by those social structures with no references what so ever.

I actually appreciate that it goes through the "filter" of others, because I don't assume I know everything and I know I can be blind to the impact of requested feature on workflow of others or existing features.

It's also in exchanging the ideas where better ideas emerge, often accidently (e.g. @pdxindy's comment the other day on ability to insert "markers" in Arrangement that would trigger specific Launcher clip - it's a super neat solution to solve my lack of alias clips!).

[perpetual3]

nope, it's about these requests (esp. the first five of them)

Only 1 of the top 5 would be in my top 5... that would be Midi Comping

Otherwise, my top 5 would be:

Groove tools
Tempo mapping
Step Sequencer like Logic
An Arrangement Track that can sequence Launcher Scenes.

Co-sign!

[icaria36]

any attention to voted "arguments" is a distraction and radiates negativity towards the devs.

"Radiating negativity towards the devs" is a big concern I also have. It's the main reason why I chose a software platform designed to propitiate constructive discussion and collaboration, even if that meant starting with zero users. Have you actually checked Bitwish discussions? If anyone finds negativity towards the Bitwig team (explicit or structural), flag it and we will fix it.

About voting. Bitwish needs to clarify what is the meaning of the votes and the ranking in the wishlist. I understand how some might see this as a popular vote to decide what the Bitwig team should implement next. This is non-sense, no question about that.

When someone votes on Bitwish, the motivation should be "hey, please, look at this, what do you think?". Now that we have a hundred requests and more keep coming, we can see four tiers:

1. The very popular features. Chances that the Bitwig team will say anything about most them are imho rather slim because they might have a business impact, raise a lot of expectations, put pressure on their development plans.

2. The mid-tier, with many requests/topics that could benefit from a good conversation, more specialized and focused, with less community / marketing pressure.

3. The exotic gems, specialized ideas, in most cases extending on Bitwig-specific features hard to translate to other products. Something that perhaps they can scan from time to time for inspiration or fun.

4. Pet peeves that turns out not many care about. And that's fine.

Voting is just a means to organize a list of wishes. What really matters is to write requests in a way that is useful for Bitwig users and developers, and to have good conversations around them helping the Bitwig team understand better why these requests matter to these people, what problems they are hoping to solve with these features, or what new things they want to do with them.

PS: Apologies if my English sounds [however it sounds]. I'm not an English native speaker, I'm already happy if I keep my grammar mistakes low, and I cannot control the tone as I can in my mother tongues.

PS2: Thank you, I had these thoughts in mind for weeks and you helped me finding the time to write them down. https://bitwish.top/t/clarify-the-meani ... twish/2923