If you had to stick to one DAW - and ONLY its native 1st party devices + sounds - which one would it be?

[Synthack]

......

[BBFG#]

In my circles, we simply refer to this as an "Appletude". And in general, runs in polar opposites of gods and flocks. The later being expressed in the rhetoric of being "not smart enough to understand Apple, but it just works" (until it doesn't and they enter into a personal VauDau of insanity, praying their gods will deliver them posthaste.)
What I have also often observe is that I know for a fact that many of these Apple sheep once had high IQs before they bought into whatever is going on with that neophyte-indoctrination.
And they are always the first to defend it regardless of how dissonant the cognition is. We refer to this as a "run by fruiting".
Not all Apple users fall into these camps, but the ones that don't are in the minority.
And yes, Psych assessments and Social Model/CBT is what I've been trained in.

lol you sound like the kind of guy who never gets invited to parties.
As for all the rest of you Apple haters, seriously you all need to grow up. I only ever see this silly PC vs Apple debate on gaming forums where it is kind of relevant, so I find it surprising to see it on a forum full of creatives. Most creative professionals I know don't spend their time whining about this stuff, they just use what works for them and get shit done.
A lot of apple users (Like me) use BOTH a windows and an Apple computer. I started out on Windows and i still enjoy it, but i do like using my apple system for creative work.
Heck I even have a old computer with Windows 98 on it!
You use whatever works in the moment, both platforms are great. It's not one or the other, because that kind of thinking is stupid and useless.
Sure certain tools are platform exclusive, but as adults who earn money for our hobbies then you can choose both.

I don't hate Apple, or even Apple users.
I am becoming more and more wary of their implementations of despotic policies and trust them less and less though. And my pity increases in relation to that toward their user base. It's not their fault.
But it's difficult for me to not be at least amused by these predictable forum responses. You might even reread my post and find you stepped right into it.

Not all Apple users fall into these camps, but the ones that don't are in the minority.

There are well over 1 billion Apple users in the world... so you are claiming that there are more than 500 million brainwashed Apple followers... right
I was working out of an office for a couple years and there were a dozen people there with Apple laptops. Not once in those 2 years was Apple ever even mentioned. People were focused on working, not the computers. The vast majority of Apple users hardly give a thought to Apple or the technology. They are busy living their daily lives. It is only a forums like this online where this stuff is a focus of attention.

Context. As I said, "in my circles".
I did however, have Apple as my customers when they had two distinct and separate music departments, as well as many, many silicon developers and Uni psych & synth professors. When Apple downsized the two departments into one, the newly released employees hung out in my keyboard and guitar room lamenting the new philosophy. My West Coast circles have been discussing and writing on this for over three decades now. And even knowing it does not exonerate any of us (including me), from falling prey to it.
If we take ourselves too seriously about this, then escape is almost impossible.

And this is definitely more time than I want to spend on it here.
BW

[machinesworking]

You said something about me being butthurt and I threw it back at you. Then you got even more butthurt. Like I said grow up.

I wasn't mocking you I had issue with you saying Apple somehow stole Alchemy from you. I wasn't the only one who pointed it out but you seemed to direct your attention my way. All I said was that if you have issues with Apple buying CamelAudio then you should have issues with the developers who sold themselves in the first place which is true (you can't buy something that doesn't want to get bought). Never said anything about whether it was fair to PC users, or whether what Apple did or didn't do was right. I just stated facts. Then you started having a Diva moment like the Prima Madonna you are. Writing long diatribes trying to make yourself look smarter than you actually are.

Revisionism is a bitch. Nobody seems to remember that before CamelAudio got bought by Apple they were barely updating their apps anymore and looked like they were close to going out of business. Never mind that though somebody "stole" your toy and that's more important. Again grow up and stop spouting nonsense.

Hmm? You being butthurt is not some personal attack of your character, it's an observation on what you're posting. On the other hand you went right for personal. I don't know you, all I know is sometimes you post ANGRY, and it's annoying.

I really don't care about any of that, you're wrong, you stating otherwise with authority doesn't change that. To the issue of what is right or not here. Apple is a two trillion dollar company. When they bought Emagic they it was said paid 26 million dollars to buy the company and secure the services of the original owners. Unless you're from some ungodly rich family, you will sell at those prices. This is what I meant about leverage, and who holds responsibility here, 15+ years later Camel Audio are probably bought for similar numbers. IMO when it came out that Camel was bought by Apple it explained the radio silence for while that happened at Camel, I don't remember anyone wondering anything more than "when would Alchemy 2 come out?" Then some rumors they were in talks with Apple.

I don't hate Apple, but this sort of predatory behavior isn't my favorite part of large corporations. They aren't alone in it, but the fact that things get lame for people who used Camel, Redmatica etc. who aren't interested in switching to Mac or Logic isn't really to be denied, and yes, the blame rests on Apple. Pretending that you would turn down what was probably well over 10 million (considering Logic was reportedly sold for 26 million around 20 years ago), to Camel on some, "for the PC and Cubase DP users!" honor is just total and complete nonsense. Apple clearly took Camel from PC and non Logic users, that can't really be denied.

So you're whole attack where you belittle my character because I called it butthurt that you get angry about pointing out what is plainly obvious? yeah, the pandemic has been going on forever, people are getting touchy.

If you need to reply to this, explain to me how you're small time business is impervious to you becoming a multi millionaire? how your morals are so strong that you wouldn't make a few people upset if it meant you have no money worries? It's a weird flex to blame the small guy IMO, I have no idea why we're all OK with the amoral moves of large corporations? we just accept it, or deflect.

[pdxindy]

If you need to reply to this, explain to me how you're small time business is impervious to you becoming a multi millionaire?

I sell in a minute for that sort of cash... and wouldn't care if people blamed me for it.

[machinesworking]

I don't hate Apple, or even Apple users.
I am becoming more and more wary of their implementations of despotic policies and trust them less and less though. And my pity increases in relation to that toward their user base. It's not their fault.
But it's difficult for me to not be at least amused by these predictable forum responses.

I Might sound like I'm on your "side" here in this thread, but you're doing what most people do, place too much blame for the fact that all corporations are predatory on Apple and Apple alone. The problem isn't Apple, if you were paying attention at all during Microsofts anti competitive monopoly lawsuits you clearly would know that any claim that Apple is the only tech company that does some despotic things, or is even the worst offender, is just flat wrong. They clearly broke all kinds of anti trust laws by flexing their monopoly status in the hardware PC field to destroy Netscape.

Apple make great products, the M1 is a great chip, that they keep things in "their sphere", well that's the nature of the way we've set up capitalism at the global level. It's not an Apple specific issue. Plus it's absolutely hilarious Microsoft claiming that Apple is anti competitive recently, considering the only reason they weren't broken up is because Bush Jr. dropped the lawsuit when he got into power. It's definitely a matter that Microsoft have only the 'free market' in mind when it benefits them. They definitely do a sort of half assed job with "support" for competitive platforms, its the passive aggressive version, "Oh you're having issues with X product, try our Y , it works great!"

Basically Apple are honest about it and try to market the enclosed system as better integrated VS subtly leveraging the playing field to their advantage. You pick your poisen, your choice is not "better".

[machinesworking]

If you need to reply to this, explain to me how you're small time business is impervious to you becoming a multi millionaire?

I sell in a minute for that sort of cash... and wouldn't care if people blamed me for it.

Exactfukingly!

[sQeetz]

No plugins? Although Logic might ring the bell, I think Reason (Suite) would be the most complete package.

[apoclypse]

You said something about me being butthurt and I threw it back at you. Then you got even more butthurt. Like I said grow up.

I wasn't mocking you I had issue with you saying Apple somehow stole Alchemy from you. I wasn't the only one who pointed it out but you seemed to direct your attention my way. All I said was that if you have issues with Apple buying CamelAudio then you should have issues with the developers who sold themselves in the first place which is true (you can't buy something that doesn't want to get bought). Never said anything about whether it was fair to PC users, or whether what Apple did or didn't do was right. I just stated facts. Then you started having a Diva moment like the Prima Madonna you are. Writing long diatribes trying to make yourself look smarter than you actually are.

Revisionism is a bitch. Nobody seems to remember that before CamelAudio got bought by Apple they were barely updating their apps anymore and looked like they were close to going out of business. Never mind that though somebody "stole" your toy and that's more important. Again grow up and stop spouting nonsense.

Hmm? You being butthurt is not some personal attack of your character, it's an observation on what you're posting. On the other hand you went right for personal. I don't know you, all I know is sometimes you post ANGRY, and it's annoying.

Okay. But when I threw the butthurt comment back at you, you took it personally even though it wasn’t personal. I was just using your phrasing. So which is it? Because me saying you were butthurt over Apple taking away one of your toys had you writing some bullshit about my manliness or whatever garbage you were spewing.

If I post angry it’s because I lack patience with nonsense, and the rest of what you wrote here isn’t worth the time or effort to respond to. Writing the same thing but in ever longer paragraphs or posts doesn’t make you smart or more right, it just shows you are trying too hard.

[machinesworking]

Okay. But when I threw the butthurt comment back at you, you took it personally even though it wasn’t personal. I was just using your phrasing. So which is it? Because me saying you were butthurt over Apple taking away one of your toys had you writing some bullshit about my manliness or whatever garbage you were spewing.

If I post angry it’s because I lack patience with nonsense, and the rest of what you wrote here isn’t worth the time or effort to respond to. Writing the same thing but in ever longer paragraphs or posts doesn’t make you smart or more right, it just shows you are trying too hard.

Therin lies the difference between us, your subjective opinion you're not willing to defend, because it's clear it's an opinion, and IMO you're wrong in terms of human nature and whether a large corporation or an individual is more morally culpable... but you're more than willing to drag out the stupid ad hominem nonsense.

You literally cannot realistically defend your position that prince Camel small business should magically not sell at outrageously high prices to Apple, because moral high ground.. if you admit that any business not started as a hobby can be bought, then the onus is on Apple to have the higher moral standard, and they do not. We accept corporations as immoral but small business's with limited funding? they must be beyond reproach. Why is this a typical thing? it's weird.

If you do use Logic as a primary DAW it's great, Alchmemy etc. get solid updates at a great price, so the responses are emotionally charged, and my bad for not remembering that's how that works. I use Logic sometimes, but I still think it's a bad policy to buy up cross platform tech and embed it in your DAW/OS to force sales.

[Halonmusic]

Then it has to be FL Studio. I dont really use FL Studio much anymore, Reason is; I have a gazillion of unfinished projects since 2007 or so. I started with Fruityloops 3 back in, what, 2001 was it? Can't remember when it came out but i digress. Everytime i open an old project (which is rare) i really should and want to finish, but i quickly lose interest immediately because they are so old and many of the plugins has been removed or deleted. Some projects i have finished but it is very rare, but it was the DAW i started making music with back in the day. The thing i love about FL Studio is the automation feature, the pianoroll and the great synthesizers and plugins. Harmor/Harmless is two great synthesizers which can do a lot, especially Harmor. Harmor can do everything. One thing i loved was importing images and then resynthesizing them into something very different. The effects were quite capable aswell. Some great ones in there for shure. So, to answer your question, if i still only used FL Studio, that would be my DAW of choice if i only could use the in-built plugins and synths, but i switched to EnergyXT many years ago and i do not regret it for second. Yes it only supports 32bit plugins but i so do not care at all. It is the fastest and most stable DAW i have ever used. Everytime i install a new plugin, i open EnergyXT, right click on 'Plugins' and choose 'Refresh', the plugins i installed are ready to be used. Not the usual stupid 'scan through new installed plugins' which EVERY freaking DAW does which takes ages. I love it. Wow, long post this. But yes FL Studio is still a great DAW i still want to support but i suppose i have moved on, so, was my post un-necessary? Maybe I still have FL Studio installed so hopefully some older projects ill be finished at some time

[apoclypse]

Okay. But when I threw the butthurt comment back at you, you took it personally even though it wasn’t personal. I was just using your phrasing. So which is it? Because me saying you were butthurt over Apple taking away one of your toys had you writing some bullshit about my manliness or whatever garbage you were spewing.

If I post angry it’s because I lack patience with nonsense, and the rest of what you wrote here isn’t worth the time or effort to respond to. Writing the same thing but in ever longer paragraphs or posts doesn’t make you smart or more right, it just shows you are trying too hard.

Therin lies the difference between us, your subjective opinion you're not willing to defend, because it's clear it's an opinion, and IMO you're wrong in terms of human nature and whether a large corporation or an individual is more morally culpable... but you're more than willing to drag out the stupid ad hominem nonsense.

You literally cannot realistically defend your position that prince Camel small business should magically not sell at outrageously high prices to Apple, because moral high ground.. if you admit that any business not started as a hobby can be bought, then the onus is on Apple to have the higher moral standard, and they do not. We accept corporations as immoral but small business's with limited funding? they must be beyond reproach. Why is this a typical thing? it's weird.

If you do use Logic as a primary DAW it's great, Alchmemy etc. get solid updates at a great price, so the responses are emotionally charged, and my bad for not remembering that's how that works. I use Logic sometimes, but I still think it's a bad policy to buy up cross platform tech and embed it in your DAW/OS to force sales.

Sigh you argue in circles. Robbing the developers of CamelAudio any agency over their choice to sell to Apple to fill in some bogus narrative you made up about corporations.

There are countless examples of developers that have refused to sell to larger corporations. Ubisoft, Snapchat, just recently Tik Tok. Camel Audio got sold to Apple. The developers sold themselves to Apple, either for an opportunity to work at Apple (looks great on a resume) or the money, or both. It doesn't matter it was a choice they made and you trying to say otherwise shows you lack of understanding how capitalism actually works. Again you can't buy something unless it's up for sale. It's really that simple.

At this point nothing you say is of any interest to me. You try to come off as reasonable or like you weren't trying to be offensive but then go on some tirade about manliness or whatever then try to act like you are discussing in good faith. Either way I have no more to say to you because I'm just going to move on.

[apoclypse]

Double post.

[machinesworking]

Sigh you argue in circles. Robbing the developers of CamelAudio any agency over their choice to sell to Apple to fill in some bogus narrative you made up about corporations.

There are countless examples of developers that have refused to sell to larger corporations. Ubisoft, Snapchat, just recently Tik Tok. Camel Audio got sold to Apple. The developers sold themselves to Apple, either for an opportunity to work at Apple (looks great on a resume) or the money, or both. It doesn't matter it was a choice they made and you trying to say otherwise shows you lack of understanding how capitalism actually works. Again you can't buy something unless it's up for sale. It's really that simple.

You named three companies that are magnitudes bigger than a developer with three plug ins essentially. There's IMO a big difference in vulnerability there.

At this point nothing you say is of any interest to me. You try to come off as reasonable or like you weren't trying to be offensive but then go on some tirade about manliness or whatever then try to act like you are discussing in good faith. Either way I have no more to say to you because I'm just going to move on.

I try to come off as reasonable because I don't care about the unreasonable stuff, people misconstrue intentions all the time on the internet, so I do my best not to hold anyone to something they said once. it's just annoying to have all this hate online about what are essentially subjective opinions for the most part.

What we disagree on without the asides and ad hominum is where the moral and ethical responsibility resides in a business deal where one partner can offer whatever they want to, to buy you out. I feel pretty strongly you're wrong about this but there's plenty of wiggle room, this is after all a subjective conversation from the start.

Let's not mince things up here, you did the classic blatant disregard for my opinion first, you're by no means some saint in this, you started off guns blazing.

Sure, but you can no longer get updates to Alchemy, and a recent update to Mojave, an older Mac OS, killed Alchemy on my system. Apple blatantly bought Alchemy to drive Logic sales without regard to Alchemy customers. It's capitalism, it is what it is, but stand with my Windows Camel users on this one, if they want to call it theft I'm gonna agree. It might be legal but it ain't pretty.

LOL. Apple hasn't charged for an update to Logic Pro X since it came out. That makes no sense. The money Apple makes on Logic is a rounding error compared to what ever else they have going on. They bought Camel Audio for their tech and developers, Alchemy and Camel Phat were just a bonus. Just like when Apple bought Redmatica.