On a Mac mini M1 I started learning to use the Connector plugin for Audio. Routing in Logic, Logic to Bidule and back and so on. With all Connector routings, even Logic internal, I have to set each receive buffer at least to 1024, which gives me unacceptable latency. Below 1024 I get dropouts. DAW buffer does not seem to have an impact on that, neither does an increased send buffer (I leave it at 'auto').
Can I fix this latency problem or is it a known issue on machines with the ARM processor?
Connector audio latency on Mac mini M1
-
- KVRer
- 10 posts since 27 Apr, 2010
-
Blue Cat Audio Blue Cat Audio https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=39981 - KVRAF
- 6345 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)
You should be able to achieve very low latency (especially on the M1 which is a high performance machine). You may want to check our tips to get the lowest possible latency between two DAWs with Connector.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 27 Apr, 2010
Let's talk about internal audio routing in Logic.
Logic's audio buffer is set to 128 samples.
I have one software instrument with a synth and simple music. Logic's CPU monitor shows almost zero.
Test 1
Connector sender in the synth channel. Connector receiver as instrument in another instrument channel. No problem, buffer still on 'auto'.
Test 2
Added a long reverb directly after the synth. The Connector receiver shows 100 dropouts. I increase Connector's buffer and it works exactly at 1024.
1024 samples are 21.3 ms at 48kHz. I think you can agree that this is not acceptable. I see exactly the same behavior between two DAWs.
Can I do anything to make that better or is Connector on my machine (Mac mini M1) currently only for applications where timing is not an issue?
Logic's audio buffer is set to 128 samples.
I have one software instrument with a synth and simple music. Logic's CPU monitor shows almost zero.
Test 1
Connector sender in the synth channel. Connector receiver as instrument in another instrument channel. No problem, buffer still on 'auto'.
Test 2
Added a long reverb directly after the synth. The Connector receiver shows 100 dropouts. I increase Connector's buffer and it works exactly at 1024.
1024 samples are 21.3 ms at 48kHz. I think you can agree that this is not acceptable. I see exactly the same behavior between two DAWs.
Can I do anything to make that better or is Connector on my machine (Mac mini M1) currently only for applications where timing is not an issue?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
Blue Cat Audio Blue Cat Audio https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=39981
- KVRAF
- 6345 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)
That's indeed a pretty large latency. I am not sure how Logic works in this case. Have you tried to change the pre-roll and plug-in options as explained in the manual? Connector can stream audio in real time, so if the host is doing so pre-buffering and pre-computing on some tracks, it may screw up real time streaming.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 27 Apr, 2010
Same setup as above but today it does not matter if the long reverb is active or not. Even without the reverb I get noise, crackles and dropouts until the buffer is at 1024. According to your suggestion I have switched off plugin compensation and playback pre-roll. Did not help.
The manual says that some DAWs may use pre-buffering and that one have to try with different buffer values and that the buffer at the receiver is preferably a multiple of the sender. Beside of plugin compensation and pre-roll I have nothing to set in Logic. Played with Connector's send buffer, but it makes no difference if it is at auto (= no additional buffer) or 32, 64, 128, 256 or 512. The receiver's buffer must be at 1024 to get a stable connection.
The manual says that some DAWs may use pre-buffering and that one have to try with different buffer values and that the buffer at the receiver is preferably a multiple of the sender. Beside of plugin compensation and pre-roll I have nothing to set in Logic. Played with Connector's send buffer, but it makes no difference if it is at auto (= no additional buffer) or 32, 64, 128, 256 or 512. The receiver's buffer must be at 1024 to get a stable connection.
-
Blue Cat Audio Blue Cat Audio https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=39981
- KVRAF
- 6345 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)
Have you tried to change Logic's own buffer to other values and see if there is any difference? (256 maybe?)
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 27 Apr, 2010
256 samples make no difference. But interestingly, Logic's buffer at 512 is the only DAW setting where my Connectors work in realtime between instrument channels. Not lower, not higher. With one or more Connector pairs. Sender and receiver can stay at 'auto'.
Now I tried sending audio from Logic to Bidule (only one Connector as receiver). Here the magic 1024 comes again. Bidule buffer at some value and Connector buffer 1024 works. Bidule at 1024 and Connector at 0 works also.
I did not test further (the third DAW would be Max) because I see very little advantage for the Connector plugin. For audio transfer the pre-installed AUNetSend and AUNetReceive do a better job than the Connector and they do it at any DAW latency setting the CPU allows.
I have some plugins from Blue Cat and I like them. I'm sorry to say that the connector doesn't work satisfactorily here on the Mac mini M1. I can still test something, but generally it doesn't look good.
Now I tried sending audio from Logic to Bidule (only one Connector as receiver). Here the magic 1024 comes again. Bidule buffer at some value and Connector buffer 1024 works. Bidule at 1024 and Connector at 0 works also.
I did not test further (the third DAW would be Max) because I see very little advantage for the Connector plugin. For audio transfer the pre-installed AUNetSend and AUNetReceive do a better job than the Connector and they do it at any DAW latency setting the CPU allows.
I have some plugins from Blue Cat and I like them. I'm sorry to say that the connector doesn't work satisfactorily here on the Mac mini M1. I can still test something, but generally it doesn't look good.
-
Blue Cat Audio Blue Cat Audio https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=39981
- KVRAF
- 6345 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)
It's not specific to the M1 processor as we have been using Connector on an M1 Macbook Pro for a year now, with very low latencies (down to 32 samples buffers), even over the network. Which audio interface are you using by the way?
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 27 Apr, 2010
The audio interface is a Metric Halo 2882 3D and runs at 48 kHz. Connected to the Mac via Cat5 cable.
—
Logic is a problem in such applications (no surprise though).
I tried now from Max to Bidule and back. Much better. Can go down to 32 samples DAW buffer, so far I see I have to set the Connector's receive buffer to the double DAW buffer. I get about 1 dropout per minute. Tested with Connector's AU version only, did not try with VST yet.
However, the same routing with AUNetSend/Receive delivers the same result without tweaking buffers. Don't know about dropouts but it sounds well with clean sine signals.
Overall I still see very little advantage of Connector over proven routings with Blackhole or AUNetSend/Receive and MIDI via virtual MIDI ports. If Connector would work flawlessly here, I would like the two gain dials and the ability to send audio and MIDI over the same route.
My main DAW is Logic. I already bought the Connector plugin and won't sort it out immediatly. I will rather wait if a future update of the plugin or an update of my Mac or Logic changes the situation.
Thank you for your support!
—
Logic is a problem in such applications (no surprise though).
I tried now from Max to Bidule and back. Much better. Can go down to 32 samples DAW buffer, so far I see I have to set the Connector's receive buffer to the double DAW buffer. I get about 1 dropout per minute. Tested with Connector's AU version only, did not try with VST yet.
However, the same routing with AUNetSend/Receive delivers the same result without tweaking buffers. Don't know about dropouts but it sounds well with clean sine signals.
Overall I still see very little advantage of Connector over proven routings with Blackhole or AUNetSend/Receive and MIDI via virtual MIDI ports. If Connector would work flawlessly here, I would like the two gain dials and the ability to send audio and MIDI over the same route.
My main DAW is Logic. I already bought the Connector plugin and won't sort it out immediatly. I will rather wait if a future update of the plugin or an update of my Mac or Logic changes the situation.
Thank you for your support!