Windows 11 pro as a DAW?

[audiojunkie]

Lol @ the Linux mentions again by the way... guy is asking for Windows 10 or 11 for his DAW, and people gotta recommend Linux. Fanatics these days.

Fake news, nobody recommended Linux.

I'm sorry. Offtopic talk about Linux then. Doesn't make it much better though.

Agreed. It was off topic. Apologies to all.

No worries. Actually, reading all of the post, I guess I owe you an apology, as the trigger for the discussion obviously was a post comparing Windows alternatives.

I just get a bit allergic every time I read Linux in a Windows thread, because it's very often that people make it a topic when there is no need to.

No worries! No offense taken!

[dune_rave]

What kmonkey and ls1xxx said.

Windows and it's ancestors have been around for 40 years. It's a mature technology, they clearly have nothing else to offer until hardware developers come up with 3d holograms and direct to consciousness interfaces. There is no low hanging fruit left, and decades of 3rd party software to maintain compatibility with meaning they cannot change most of their APIs.

Windows is now essentially free, to help maintain the Windows monopoly over freely available operating systems like Android and Ubuntu. You can install Windows 10 or 11 without a product key and never activate it. Windows 11 is mostly about invading your privacy and turning you into the product that they will sell to anybody will to pay. Ads in the start menu, need I say more?

The problem is: There is no alternative!

Mac?? Before I go on a Mac I kick my computer out of the window and join a monastery...
Besides not being better than Microsoft...

Linux??? I sadly haven´t studied Rocket science nor quantum physics...so this door stays closed for me...

What else??

I think what this world is lacking are some serious laws to force guys like Gates and buddies to offer versions without all that spyware and ads...

You are giving us Linux users more credit than we deserve. We aren't any more intelligent than anyone else. There is a different paradigm and way of thinking, but a lot of that is common place nowadays and isn't really new to anyone anymore. The strangest thing for me to grasp when I first started Linux was the idea that your software that is available for you comes in repositories. Coming from the Windows world, that was strange to me. However, with the advent of smart phones and tablets run by Apple and Android, everyone is used to the idea that software comes from an app store. There are exceptions to that, but that's really the key. The second big thing is that the various Linux distributions are targeted for a particular audience. For example, If you value system stability over having the most recent software, you would choose something like Ubuntu. If you value having the latest and greatest software, you would choose something like Manjaro. Both are very easy to install systems that provide the essentials for audio production in Linux. I personally use EndeavourOS, but that's because I'm an intermediate user and like a little more control over what goes into my system. Beginners can get the full benefit of the Linux experience without having to bother with other distros. Ubuntu or Manjaro should be sufficient for you to do everything. The third unusual thing about Linux is that whereas Windows has one particular desktop environment that gets polished up between version updates, Linux has many different desktop environments to choose from. This is again where personal choice comes into play. I recommend Gnome or KDE Plasma for most people. Again, it comes down to personal choice, but these are two of the best desktop environments. KDE Plasma has a more "Windows"-like feel to it. Windows users should feel right at home with it. It is infinitely configurable to a fault. Gnome is a much easier interface. There are few options, and few are needed to get the job done in an elegant way. Most everything is very intuitive and simple. What you choose is up to you. The 4th big paradigm change for Windows users first experiencing Linux is the way drivers are handled. Whereas, with Windows, you have to install the Windows OS version drivers from the manufacturers of the hardware you purchase, Linux comes with all of its drivers built in. You have to pick your hardware based on whether or not Linux supports it. It's not better or worse than Windows, it's just different. Imagine trying get a piece of hardware you own to run on Windows 11 that only has Windows drivers for Windows XP or Windows 7. In many cases, you won't be able to use that hardware for your Windows system. However, if its popular hardware, then there are chances that it is already in Linux and works fine. Linux drivers are not designed for a particular OS version (like Windows XP or Windows 10), but provided with the brain of the OS, called the kernel. It is the version of the kernel you use, not the OS version you use that matters--the newer the better. One of the neat things that Linux offers is something called a live installer. With these, you put the OS image on a flash drive, boot to the flash drive, and in many cases everything will simply work. If everything works, then you know that your system has the drivers it needs. Or, you can buy a system that is certified to work in Linux, and you'll know that you'll have drivers supported that way too. I personally use a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen 5. It's a 2-in-1 laptop that also serves as a tablet. I researched and bought it because it is Linux certified. Another thing that is different with Linux from Windows, is that as long as your sound card is "Class Compliant", it will work with no problems on Linux. The easy way to find proper hardware is to look for anything that runs on iOS, because they require Class Compliant hardware too. And, while I'm on the subject of class compliant devices, there is no need to worry about ASIO drivers in the Linux world--latency is managed through the kernel. If you use a low latency kernel and have yourself added to the low latency audio group, you can achieve incredibly low latency on linux with the Class Compliant hardware. This is quite different from Windows, where class compliant drivers are often slow and untuned for speed. It's a paradigm change. Aside from that, Linux runs pretty much like Windows. There is more learning involved, but it's not "rocket science"--it's simply learning the Linux way of doing things....just like you learned the Windows way of doing things. The beauty of it all though, is that you can have increased flexibility and efficiency at the cost of a learning curve. You never have to worry about companies spying on you (telemetry) or being told that you can't do things your way. There are no fees involved, and the software remains available for usage year after year. Oh, and one other thing that is really cool...Linux has, over the last 20 years, developed a Windows API layer that runs Windows programs at the native speed of Linux programs. This is a tool called WINE. It's not an emulator, it's actually running Windows programs and executing the code natively. This has allowed for the majority of Windows plugins to work natively with Linux. Most things that aren't using ilok run fine. There is more to it than that, but this is the basic gist of Linux for Pro Audio. It's not that hard, and it's not that difficult, it's just different. Once you have learned the Linux Way, just like you've learned the Windows way, a whole new world is opened up to you with no quantum physics involved.

Best Wishes!

Ok. Let's take a pretty complex plugin: Vps Avenger (https://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins.php)
On its official webpage nobody mentions Linux, and even if it's running on Linux Wine flawlessly (I doubt that),
I'm almost sure the dev will not support Linux ...

[dellboy]

Ok. Let's take a pretty complex plugin: Vps Avenger (https://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins.php)
On its official webpage nobody mentions Linux, and even if it's running on Linux Wine flawlessly (I doubt that),
I'm almost sure the dev will not support Linux ...

I am not sure what your point is? Maybe you are saying that you will not use Linux until every app is ported over? If that is the case, then its a valid concern - the solution is not to use Linux. Discussing Linux in this thread is appropriate because of some peoples reluctance to be migrated onto Windows 11 when they are quite happy where they are. Linux is in the early stages of offering a viable alternative to Windows 11 for music creation, especially with Bitwig and u-he on board already.

[Trancit]

You are giving us Linux users more credit than we deserve. We aren't any more intelligent than anyone else. ...

First thx very much for your effort...

One question I have though...you said WINE is able to run all kind of Windows stuff basically natively without any hassles...
Why are many Linux users begging software companies doing native Linux versions??

[Trancit]

Lol @ the Linux mentions again by the way... guy is asking for Windows 10 or 11 for his DAW, and people gotta recommend Linux. Fanatics these days.

Fake news, nobody recommended Linux.

I'm sorry. Offtopic talk about Linux then. Doesn't make it much better though.

Agreed. It was off topic. Apologies to all.

No, no excuses... I find it important to talk about alternatives when people are unsure if they shall upgrade to even worse OS versions they had already before... and this definetely not off-topic!

One thing is for sure... with the actual laws we have nowadays which are 90% made to protect the industry at the expense of the ordinary population, there will not be less spyware and nonsense in future...

I appreciate your attempt bringing this alternative on the table in more detail!!

May I ask what music software you are running on your Linux system??

[audiojunkie]

What kmonkey and ls1xxx said.

Windows and it's ancestors have been around for 40 years. It's a mature technology, they clearly have nothing else to offer until hardware developers come up with 3d holograms and direct to consciousness interfaces. There is no low hanging fruit left, and decades of 3rd party software to maintain compatibility with meaning they cannot change most of their APIs.

Windows is now essentially free, to help maintain the Windows monopoly over freely available operating systems like Android and Ubuntu. You can install Windows 10 or 11 without a product key and never activate it. Windows 11 is mostly about invading your privacy and turning you into the product that they will sell to anybody will to pay. Ads in the start menu, need I say more?

The problem is: There is no alternative!

Mac?? Before I go on a Mac I kick my computer out of the window and join a monastery...
Besides not being better than Microsoft...

Linux??? I sadly haven´t studied Rocket science nor quantum physics...so this door stays closed for me...

What else??

I think what this world is lacking are some serious laws to force guys like Gates and buddies to offer versions without all that spyware and ads...

You are giving us Linux users more credit than we deserve. We aren't any more intelligent than anyone else.

(GIANT WALL OF TEXT REMOVED)

It's not that hard, and it's not that difficult, it's just different. Once you have learned the Linux Way, just like you've learned the Windows way, a whole new world is opened up to you with no quantum physics involved.

Best Wishes!

Ok. Let's take a pretty complex plugin: Vps Avenger (https://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins.php)
On its official webpage nobody mentions Linux, and even if it's running on Linux Wine flawlessly (I doubt that),
I'm almost sure the dev will not support Linux ...

You are correct. You can’t expect the developer to support a Windows plugin running in Linux. The good news is that more and more developers are releasing native linux versions of their software. Year by year this is getting better.

[audiojunkie]

You are giving us Linux users more credit than we deserve. We aren't any more intelligent than anyone else. ...

First thx very much for your effort...

One question I have though...you said WINE is able to run all kind of Windows stuff basically natively without any hassles...
Why are many Linux users begging software companies doing native Linux versions??

Because developers don’t support Windows versions running in Linux. WINE is getting better month after month, year after year, but it’s not guaranteed to work. It’s a risk you take when using WINE. No one wants to pay for software that may or may not work.

[audiojunkie]

Lol @ the Linux mentions again by the way... guy is asking for Windows 10 or 11 for his DAW, and people gotta recommend Linux. Fanatics these days.

Fake news, nobody recommended Linux.

I'm sorry. Offtopic talk about Linux then. Doesn't make it much better though.

Agreed. It was off topic. Apologies to all.

No, no excuses... I find it important to talk about alternatives when people are unsure if they shall upgrade to even worse OS versions they had already before... and this definetely not off-topic!

One thing is for sure... with the actual laws we have nowadays which are 90% made to protect the industry at the expense of the ordinary population, there will not be less spyware and nonsense in future...

I appreciate your attempt bringing this alternative on the table in more detail!!

May I ask what music software you are running on your Linux system??

Personally, I use Reaper and Ardour. I prefer native plugins, so there aren’t as many available yet. I use the open source plugins, of course, but also plugins from companies like Uhe, TAL-software, Disco DSP, etc. Glokraw (another active forum user), has a thread here on KVR where he showcases all sorts of plugins he is using with WINE.

[audiojunkie]

Here’s a link to Glowkraw’s page. It starts in 2018 and continues to the current year. It progresses quite rapidly over four years from running “some” Windows software in Linux to running “most” Windows software in Linux. The main trouble WINE has is with Windows copy protection. Almost nothing runs if it requires a dongle or PACE, or ILok. Challenge/response software is working better these days. Native Instruments software, like Kontakt and such generally works these days. I personally don’t like to be tied to copy protection that is dependent on the company still being in business. I use only software that requires a serial number or a keyfile.

EDIT: I forgot to add the link:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=503359&hilit=Linux

[audiojunkie]

Interesting note: Fircomp 2 as seen here:

https://gearspace.com/board/product-ale ... lable.html

was just released for Linux today, as can be seen here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=263031

[audiojunkie]

Linux is not yet mature like Windows or Mac, but it has become a viable option that is getting better at a steady rate year after year.

Now, I think it would be fair to the OP that I do not derail the thread further.

[mixtur.se]

W11 reserves memory even after the application is closed.

Does It? I have no idea what that means. Does it matter in the real world? I have not noticed anything. Before I upgraded I took an image of my win 10 system in case I wanted to go back. It only takes a few minutes and I could be up and running back in Win 10 if I wanted, but I see no need.

Windows is setup to use all memory, why shouldn’t it? That means that when an application closes windows might claim it for caching other things but it’s returned to the system when needed.

[mgw38]

Purchasing a new laptop - worth to get Windows 11 installed, instead of my previous Win 10 pro? There are quite a contradictory information in the market about it.
(My DAW is Live 11 suite).

No substantial problems with Windows 11 here although some of the new sound settings are annoying, especially the way they are suddenly hiding the option to change the output device. I am also experiencing some scaling issues with plugin GUIs that I did not have under Windows 10.

The only real problem I found was that the systemwide version of Sonarworks SoundID does not work under Windows 11 because of a driver incompatibility. But they have announced that a compatibility update will be released Feb 21, so this should be fixed soon.

[Harry_HH]

W11 reserves memory even after the application is closed.

Does It? I have no idea what that means. Does it matter in the real world? I have not noticed anything. Before I upgraded I took an image of my win 10 system in case I wanted to go back. It only takes a few minutes and I could be up and running back in Win 10 if I wanted, but I see no need.

Windows is setup to use all memory, why shouldn’t it? That means that when an application closes windows might claim it for caching other things but it’s returned to the system when needed.

That wasn’t a claim but a question. As said, I don’t have W11 intalled, I’m referring the other users comments, see the YT attached earlier.

[dellboy]

W11 reserves memory even after the application is closed.

Does It? I have no idea what that means. Does it matter in the real world? I have not noticed anything. Before I upgraded I took an image of my win 10 system in case I wanted to go back. It only takes a few minutes and I could be up and running back in Win 10 if I wanted, but I see no need.

Windows is setup to use all memory, why shouldn’t it? That means that when an application closes windows might claim it for caching other things but it’s returned to the system when needed.

In real world usage what does it mean? I have not experienced anything unusual that needs a fix. I have just checked the task manager and it reports 31.8 GB of ram with just the browser open, and I have 32 GB installed.

#edit: The task manager says 5.1GB in use and 26.5 GB available, so maybe that is the problem?

What does it say on a Win 10 machine in task manager?

#edit: I forgot about the swap-file which is taking 4.9 GB. And a few other hidden files are probably consuming the rest.