Free vs. bought
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 9 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Denmark
Whoa! Reason! You can't sell something -- and when the buyer returns and asks, why is this car sold to me, when it was free at the time I bought it - then answer the customer: You'll get the next upgraded car cheaper. That's not logical, and... never mind.
Portrait of the Artist as an Old Dog
http://blangstrup.org
http://blangstrup.org
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
this is just getting stupid.
of course it's odd to some that it's free yet you can still buy it, but it's NOT free. you can get it for free if you don't want to pay for it, but you don't own it like you do if you pay for it; it isn't worth anything to you, you are just allowed to use it as if you own it. that's a bit of a weird thing to imagine but it just is that way.
it is NOT bad business for them to be doing so. if you're pissed about it then you're pissed about it and nothing we can say will quell that. we're all really sorry about that.
however, you say that you are not pissed about it so i would suggest that you drop it. it is not bad business ethic; it is stated that you can get a free version. it is still worth something. if you don't have a problem, like you say you don't, then stop complaining.
of course it's odd to some that it's free yet you can still buy it, but it's NOT free. you can get it for free if you don't want to pay for it, but you don't own it like you do if you pay for it; it isn't worth anything to you, you are just allowed to use it as if you own it. that's a bit of a weird thing to imagine but it just is that way.
it is NOT bad business for them to be doing so. if you're pissed about it then you're pissed about it and nothing we can say will quell that. we're all really sorry about that.
however, you say that you are not pissed about it so i would suggest that you drop it. it is not bad business ethic; it is stated that you can get a free version. it is still worth something. if you don't have a problem, like you say you don't, then stop complaining.
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 9 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Denmark
That's okay with me. I think I've got the message through to those who get it, anyway. 
Portrait of the Artist as an Old Dog
http://blangstrup.org
http://blangstrup.org
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
the NFR is more like an unrestricted demo. (I don't know if Mackie make any commercial limitations on what can be done with it).
It seems like the NFR page now requires you to have an NFR code as well, so I guess the free to all comers period is over. That may even have been a mistake for all we know.
It seems like the NFR page now requires you to have an NFR code as well, so I guess the free to all comers period is over. That may even have been a mistake for all we know.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
and about cars... tho not even close to being comparable...
you have the option to purchase or lease. People who lease pay a lot less money from month to month, but they have a different set of restrictions.
The NFR Tracktion has a different set of restrictions.. than those that buy. It's really that simple.
you have the option to purchase or lease. People who lease pay a lot less money from month to month, but they have a different set of restrictions.
The NFR Tracktion has a different set of restrictions.. than those that buy. It's really that simple.
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRist
- 125 posts since 31 May, 2004
1. Cars are hardware, not software. Stop comparing them because your analogy is flawed. Software can be upgraded with no physical deferential. Cars and other hardware cannot. If you cannot grasp this simple difference, then you are not qualified to call for "reason" in this argument.davidcrickett wrote:Yes, but sorry, that's no answer to my question. I bought _this_ version of Tracktion, and nowhere was to be seen any information of it was a free program. If I bought a car, and nobody told me it was actually a free car - I wouldn't be satisfied with the answer, that I could by the next version for half the price. I have to say this isn't good business ethics, and it spoils some of my good feelings having paid an honest oneman firm/Jules for his program!
2. The free offer is a promotion that you weren't eligible for. It is -- at least currently -- a viral marketing campaign. It is not publicized, but rather spread by word-of-mouth. You were not eligible for the free offer because in this case eligibility is defined by knowledge of the offer, which you did not have at time of purchase. There is nothing unreasonable or unethical about this. Promotions and sales happen all the time with all types of merchandise and not everyone gets to take advantage of them. That is to say: life's not fair. That's no fault of Jules or Mackie.
Another way of putting it is thus: Mackie didn't sell you something that was already free. They gave away free to others something that was for sale, and you just happened to miss out.
3. Regardless of whether or not you choose to believe it, there IS a difference between the free license and what you purchased. What you purchased is upgradeable. The free license is not. Just because you don't care about that doesn't mean the value does not exist. What's more, you claim that you will probably upgrade to the next version -- how then is this not an investment toward that future purchase? You will not only get T2 at the upgrade price, but the upgrade price plus what you've already paid will be less than a full version of T2. So you STILL come out ahead. The ONLY way you can claim to lose in this scenario is if you were never intending to buy T2, and you've already stated otherwise.
The fact of the matter is that you bought something that does have greater value than the free license. You can bitch and moan all you want, but YOU are the one ignoring reason in this debate.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 9 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Denmark
I don't bitch, I don't moan, and I certainly don't call myself a sage. You're not right, you're not very reasonable, but if you're religious about this software and this question, then have the last word. To sell something with one hand and give it away with the other can never be fair. But have it your way, have the last word, _Sage_. I'm glad the other guys here have met me halfways through the argument. Give a little, take a little, get a compromise. And now, _Sage_, have the last word.
Portrait of the Artist as an Old Dog
http://blangstrup.org
http://blangstrup.org
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- KVRist
- 73 posts since 25 Mar, 2004 from Sydney, Australia
You're certainly not the only one feeling annoyed by Mackie's marketing strategy, so just let all the religious "you should be thankful" rubbish wash over.davidcrickett wrote:I'm glad the other guys here have met me halfways through the argument.
Did Mackie not think it through? I wonder if they were surprised at the reaction?
Or perhaps they just figured there would be net-positive to Tracktion. I suspect they are right.
Worst case scenario for you is that you don't want to upgrade to T2 but you like T1. Once the T2 pricing comes out you'll have to go through the hassle of trying to sell your license. You'll probably waste an hour or two of your time and maybe end up few dollars off par.
Whereas if you had got the NFR version, the choice would be back with you: i) keep using T1 for free ii) buy a T1 license in order to upgrade to T2 or iii) just buy a T2 license. Which to choose would depend on both the cost and effort required I guess.
But you are right to feel you have lost something... you have... your range of choices has been reduced.
However, I suspect if you like the look of T2 even a bit you might not bother with the hassle and just upgrade your T1 license. Perhaps Mackie had this in the back of their minds?
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
true.davidcrickett wrote:To sell something with one hand and give it away with the other can never be fair.
if the products are the same!
but the NFR tracktion and the purchased tracktion DO NO have the same license... and it is the LICENSE that you are purchasing. I think alot of us just don't understand why that is so hard to grasp.
it has nothing to do with being fanatic over software... if I were to get someone tracktion for xmas, I would BUY a copy. Why.. cos I want to give that individual the upgrade path to v2. In this scenario both free and puchasible versions are available concurrently... there is nothing wrong with that from a business standpoint.
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Ok, when this first started, I was a bit bothered by it. But I was in a bad mood that day.
Now, it makes alot of sense to me. We WANT more people to use Tracktion. That's what this is all about. It's NOT bad business sense. The purpose of business is to MAKE money. The people who are downloading it for free are mostly people who weren't even going to buy Tracktion at all, or they were not convinced to do so yet. This is the extra push it took to get them on board.
You BOUGHT Tracktion, because you liked it, and thought it was worth the money. If you didn't think so, you wouldn't have bought it. Also, you GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!!! As it's been beaten to the ground here, you have the option to resell your copy, or upgrade it for a significant discount, two options you didn't have if you downloaded it. That's the way it is, period!
Nobody got ripped off here. Mackie didn't make a bad business move. They will likely make more money and create more of a following because of this. It really is genius.
If you feeled urked from this, sorry. It's a choice you make. I bought the EWQLSO only a couple weeks before they had a group buy for the next version up FOR THE SAME PRICE I PAID. Hey, it was a choice I made. I got what I paid for.
Also, you said you plan on getting T2. So there. You will now save money on it. And my guess is that when T2 comes out, you WON'T be able to quicly buy version 1 to get a discount on the upgrade. Companies don't do that.
Long story short: You got what you paid for. That's the way it goes. And you got way more than anyone who got it for free. It's not the same product, period. Nothing to argue here. Now, go make music on your Tracktion. You know you want to.
Koolkeys
Now, it makes alot of sense to me. We WANT more people to use Tracktion. That's what this is all about. It's NOT bad business sense. The purpose of business is to MAKE money. The people who are downloading it for free are mostly people who weren't even going to buy Tracktion at all, or they were not convinced to do so yet. This is the extra push it took to get them on board.
You BOUGHT Tracktion, because you liked it, and thought it was worth the money. If you didn't think so, you wouldn't have bought it. Also, you GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR!!!!!!!! As it's been beaten to the ground here, you have the option to resell your copy, or upgrade it for a significant discount, two options you didn't have if you downloaded it. That's the way it is, period!
Nobody got ripped off here. Mackie didn't make a bad business move. They will likely make more money and create more of a following because of this. It really is genius.
If you feeled urked from this, sorry. It's a choice you make. I bought the EWQLSO only a couple weeks before they had a group buy for the next version up FOR THE SAME PRICE I PAID. Hey, it was a choice I made. I got what I paid for.
Also, you said you plan on getting T2. So there. You will now save money on it. And my guess is that when T2 comes out, you WON'T be able to quicly buy version 1 to get a discount on the upgrade. Companies don't do that.
Long story short: You got what you paid for. That's the way it goes. And you got way more than anyone who got it for free. It's not the same product, period. Nothing to argue here. Now, go make music on your Tracktion. You know you want to.
Koolkeys
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- KVRist
- 111 posts since 1 Oct, 2004
Just remember that Mackie aka LOUD Technologies did not create Tracktion.
And for that be eternally gratefull. 
I do hope that Mackie doesn't think it should try its hand at coding. What a mess that would be.
RMS keep the rights and market this fine piece of software however you please.
Oh yes I do do know what I am saying... I am a Mackie Dealer and service center. Can you say chinese imports.
IndiQa
And for that be eternally gratefull. I do hope that Mackie doesn't think it should try its hand at coding. What a mess that would be.
RMS keep the rights and market this fine piece of software however you please.
Oh yes I do do know what I am saying... I am a Mackie Dealer and service center. Can you say chinese imports.
IndiQa
Last edited by IndiQa on Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
