Bitwig 4.2 Beta Discussion

[pdxindy]

I like the sound quality of Reaktor Blocks... but patching is so freakin slow, clumsy and limited compared to patching in the Grid. Reaktor Blocks takes far too much CPU as well. I uninstalled Reaktor and will never use Reaktor Blocks again. It is either the Grid, or I got a whole bunch of Eurorack!

the workflow isnt great but its only slightly worse than most other software modulars, the grid is an exception as the workflow is really quick

eurorack is a lot of hassle but its worth it for the sound quality, and same with blocks imo

with toybox when you factor in that its automatically poly, the workflow for making chords is much better than most modular vsts

I'm spoiled by the Grid. I'll never use another software modular. The Grid workflow is so open and fast in comparison. Reaktor Blocks sucks for patching and double sucks for saving presets.

Reaktor Blocks being automatically poly is not much benefit when a mono patch can crush a single cpu core by itself. I can make a Grid electric piano patch that has no trouble playing 24 voices.

The Grid gives me exactly what I don't have using Eurorack and does not consume massive cpu resources.

Reaktor Blocks sounds good, but still doesn't sound like my Eurorack system.

[j wazza]

I'm spoiled by the Grid. I'll never use another software modular. The Grid workflow is so open and fast in comparison. Reaktor Blocks sucks for patching and double sucks for saving presets.

Reaktor Blocks being automatically poly is not much benefit when a mono patch can crush a single cpu core by itself. I can make a Grid electric piano patch that has no trouble playing 24 voices.

The Grid gives me exactly what I don't have using Eurorack and does not consume massive cpu resources.

Reaktor Blocks sounds good, but still doesn't sound like my Eurorack system.

fair enough, i use a few including the grid, i like having options as they all have their benefits, real analog modular is definitely the best sounding but most hassle, grid is the least hassle but it sounds quite thin, you can make some dope fm sounds with it though

toybox is somewhere in between, but for the kind of stuff I like doing its ideal (sampling my eurorack and doing more synth stuff to it with plugins, like playing poly and unison without needing to buy loads of eurorack oscs, doing fm and other audio rate modulation with these samples, turning them into wavetables and doing phase distortion etc) i can do all that with the grid but i find it spoils the sound of my samples a bit when doing all that, so now i mostly use the grid when I'm using its own oscillators

maybe if the sampler in the grid had an actual fm/pm input it would sound better, i do it with a mod out modulating the speed of the sampler

the grid is definitely the most cpu efficient modular ive used though

what kind of stuff do you do in the grid?

[pdxindy]

what kind of stuff do you do in the grid?

I mostly make fairly simple synth patches... pads, leads, plucks... often a mix of sample and osc. I think the Grid can sound quite good, but agree it sounds weak by default cause it is perfect. I also am not using it attempting to get an analog emulation so I don't use that as a measure.

The Grid is also great for MPE presets. And it is so easy to add and control various subtle modulations. I find it very expressive and playable.

Now with the new per voice FX, it is faster to add some body to a basic patch. 1 Osc + the new Chorus into a Filter... Makes gorgeous pads!

[Echoes in the Attic]

I'm not sure I think much about the sound of the bitwig filters though. However admittedly this is mostly based on the stock instruments, not the grid, because I have barely used the grid. I don't eve know if it's more the bitwig oscillators or filters I have a problem with, I just know when I put them together, like using one of their synths, it just doesn't do it for sonically.

[j wazza]

what kind of stuff do you do in the grid?

I mostly make fairly simple synth patches... pads, leads, plucks... often a mix of sample and osc. I think the Grid can sound quite good, but agree it sounds weak by default cause it is perfect.
Now with the new per voice FX, it is faster to add some body to a basic patch. 1 Osc + the new Chorus into a Filter... Makes gorgeous pads!

yeah i meant its sound by default, like any synth it can be made to sound good with good sound design, and it has more possibilities for sound design than most synths and makes it much quicker and easier than most

do you mean mostly subtractive synth stuff? Im guessing your electric pianos are fm?

for the per voice chorus do you use keyfollow modulation on it or something else?

I'm not sure I think much about the sound of the bitwig filters though. However admittedly this is mostly based on the stock instruments, not the grid, because I have barely used the grid. I don't eve know if it's more the bitwig oscillators or filters I have a problem with, I just know when I put them together, like using one of their synths, it just doesn't do it for sonically.

the filters sound similar in and out of the grid, im not a fan of the filters either so use other filter plugins unless i need one in the grid so its earlier in the chain

i also remember not being able to do filter fm in the grid which was weird, something about the cutoff being stepped

[pdxindy]

I'm not sure I think much about the sound of the bitwig filters though. However admittedly this is mostly based on the stock instruments, not the grid, because I have barely used the grid. I don't eve know if it's more the bitwig oscillators or filters I have a problem with, I just know when I put them together, like using one of their synths, it just doesn't do it for sonically.

The filters are functional... not characterful. They don't sound bad, just plain.

I find Polysynth quite useful. Does some excellent basses and plucks. Also some lovely pads.
Phase-4 is a quality instrument. Very versatile and sounds as good as plenty of VST's.
Sampler is high quality.
Polymer is the Grid and it sounds very good.
Organ is surprisingly useful.
FM4 is so so.

The thing is, by default they have no FX, no detuning or phase offset or pitch variation. So they sound boring by default. It is up to the user to add that stuff. The presets today are better than a few years ago.

[billcarroll]

I'm not sure I think much about the sound of the bitwig filters though. However admittedly this is mostly based on the stock instruments, not the grid, because I have barely used the grid. I don't eve know if it's more the bitwig oscillators or filters I have a problem with, I just know when I put them together, like using one of their synths, it just doesn't do it for sonically.

The filters are functional... not characterful. They don't sound bad, just plain.

I find Polysynth quite useful. Does some excellent basses and plucks. Also some lovely pads.
Phase-4 is a quality instrument. Very versatile and sounds as good as plenty of VST's.
Sampler is high quality.
Polymer is the Grid and it sounds very good.
Organ is surprisingly useful.
FM4 is so so.

The thing is, by default they have no FX, no detuning or phase offset or pitch variation. So they sound boring by default. It is up to the user to add that stuff. The presets today are better than a few years ago.

Yeah, the filters seem pretty plain. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a way to get more out of them.

That said, I kinda love Polymer

[pdxindy]

what kind of stuff do you do in the grid?

I mostly make fairly simple synth patches... pads, leads, plucks... often a mix of sample and osc. I think the Grid can sound quite good, but agree it sounds weak by default cause it is perfect.
Now with the new per voice FX, it is faster to add some body to a basic patch. 1 Osc + the new Chorus into a Filter... Makes gorgeous pads!

yeah i meant its sound by default, like any synth it can be made to sound good with good sound design, and it has more possibilities for sound design than most synths and makes it much quicker and easier than most

do you mean mostly subtractive synth stuff? Im guessing your electric pianos are fm?

for the per voice chorus do you use keyfollow modulation on it or something else?

By default the Bitwig instruments are boring. But they can sound really good, expressive, nuanced, evolving, etc.

Subtractive, FM, Samples... I consider it all one playground. I have some lovely pads made with the Bitwig Organ... so that is additive. And you can use an LFO at audio rate to FM individual partials.

And of course every instrument is really MPE friendly.

[j wazza]

Subtractive, FM, Samples... I consider it all one playground. I have some lovely pads made with the Bitwig Organ... so that is additive. And you can use an LFO at audio rate to FM individual partials.

i forgot about the organ device, would be good to have that in the grid, it could be made with sine oscs though, do you mean am individual partials or how do you fm the partials?

for the per voice chorus do you use keytracking modulation or something else to make each voice different? I tried it but couldn't get it to work well, would appreciate any tips

i do like the new fx its definitely a sign that theyre working on the default sound quality

[j wazza]

just figured out a way you can sort of get an organ/additive oscillator into the grid with voice stacking:

• make a sine osc

• turn on voice stacking with 5 voices

• use a voice stack modulator set to 0-1 modulating the harmonic number by 4, this tunes the voices in the harmonic series

• then use another voice stack modulator set to manual modulating an attenuator, so you can easily control the volume of each partial from one interface, similarly to how you can in the organ device, you can also modulate the volume of each partial

it can only do up to 5 partials though but the advantage is its in the grid so you get more flexibility, you could definitely fm each partial this way if you cant with the organ device, you could do it with other oscillators, even the sampler (by modulating the speed instead of the harmonic number), you could use the skew and phase knobs on the sine osc to morph the partials etc

[pdxindy]

Subtractive, FM, Samples... I consider it all one playground. I have some lovely pads made with the Bitwig Organ... so that is additive. And you can use an LFO at audio rate to FM individual partials.

i forgot about the organ device, would be good to have that in the grid, it could be made with sine oscs though, do you mean am individual partials or how do you fm the partials?

for the per voice chorus do you use keytracking modulation or something else to make each voice different? I tried it but couldn't get it to work well, would appreciate any tips

i do like the new fx its definitely a sign that theyre working on the default sound quality

I use the LFO modulator to FM individual partials of the Organ. Yeah... would be useful to have an Organ module in the Grid. Be sweet to have FM-4 as a Grid module too.

In the Grid put a Triangle Osc -> Chorus+ -> Env -> Out
Then experiment. Plenty of settings sound good. Of course you can use multiple Osc's to create a similar effect. But this is easy and sounds lovely for moving pads.

[pdxindy]

https://dandelionaudio.com/sound/PM-chime.mp3

This is a quick Grid patch - 1 wavetable Osc, phase modulated by a sample, through the Phaser+ then filter and out. Pretty simple.

[j wazza]

I use the LFO modulator to FM individual partials of the Organ. Yeah... would be useful to have an Organ module in the Grid. Be sweet to have FM-4 as a Grid module too.

In the Grid put a Triangle Osc -> Chorus+ -> Env -> Out
Then experiment. Plenty of settings sound good. Of course you can use multiple Osc's to create a similar effect. But this is easy and sounds lovely for moving pads.

but doesnt the organ only give you a control for the volume of each partial, not their frequency or phase so you would be doing amplitude modulation?

or do you just mean modulating the pitch knob for the whole sound not for each partial?

and wouldn't the chorus for each voice be the same that way, it is sending each voice to a seperate chorus but with the same settings, so wouldn't it sound the same as just using the chorus device after the grid? i thought the advantage of per voice effects is to make each voice different, apart from distortion as putting distortion per voice is much cleaner than putting it on a chord so it changes the sound even if each copy of the distortion is the same

[pdxindy]

I use the LFO modulator to FM individual partials of the Organ. Yeah... would be useful to have an Organ module in the Grid. Be sweet to have FM-4 as a Grid module too.

In the Grid put a Triangle Osc -> Chorus+ -> Env -> Out
Then experiment. Plenty of settings sound good. Of course you can use multiple Osc's to create a similar effect. But this is easy and sounds lovely for moving pads.

but doesnt the organ only give you a control for the volume of each partial, not their frequency or phase so you would be doing amplitude modulation?

or do you just mean modulating the pitch knob for the whole sound not for each partial?

and wouldn't the chorus for each voice be the same that way, it is sending each voice to a seperate chorus but with the same settings, so wouldn't it sound the same as just using the chorus device after the grid? i thought the advantage of per voice effects is to make each voice different, apart from distortion as putting distortion per voice is much cleaner than putting it on a chord so it changes the sound even if each copy of the distortion is the same

yes... amplitude... I tend to use the term FM for any audio rate

The Chorus will be different for each voice in that the modulation will be different (LFO Phase)

[j wazza]

yes... amplitude... I tend to use the term FM for any audio rate

The Chorus will be different for each voice in that the modulation will be different (LFO Phase)

i get you now, i usually use the audio rate modulator for stuff like that though but super fast lfos could be cool for different kinds of sounds, i tried doing fm with my grid organ though and it sounded good (making this also reminded me about my idea for an additive synth made from analog sines, which I did in the grid and it was cool but not enough partials so I'm going to try making it in reaktor)

oh i see, i guess cos of the analog modelling in the chorus it could make each voice different automatically